Buy a Moroccan Rug, and Enjoy the Experience!

Hello again listeners, this is Ted Cragg, producer, Destination Morocco podcast, popping in with another quick little introduction to let you know what we have for you this week. 

If you caught our last episode on February 1st, there was a conversation between Azdean and a local guide in Telouet named Ali, who told us about the region where he lives in the High Atlas Mountains between Marrakech and Ouarzazate / Aït Bin Haddou.

We learned about hiking in the mountains, Berber/Amazigh culture, and the type of things that you can do in that region. Now the key is that that was also a video episode. And we've done the same thing this week. So, although you've heard me say before I'm always a big fan of audio podcasts, sometimes we do have a video version that really just adds to the presentation.

We initially published this conversation between Azdean and Sarah, who represents the Akhnif Lglaoui Carpet Cooperative, near Ouarzazate, near Aït Ben Haddou, which is a women's co op. They make rugs, custom handmade rugs, the type we all love to find and buy in Morocco. This is a real deal, but instead of selling them through other kinds of middlemen who get their commissions, and the women are left with hardly anything, this cooperative collects their efforts, they make them usually on site, and it cuts out that middleman so that they get 80 percent of the profits from the sale of the rugs, and when you go to visit their boutique, it's a fascinating, [00:02:00] informative visit without that pressure of having to buy right away. You can really take your time, learn about the rugs and how they're made, maybe pick one out, but then you can go back home, make some measurements, decide where you'd want to put it, write them a message, and they'll package it up for you and ship it to where you live. 

Sarah tells us how all that's done and how, of course, they verify the purchase so that you know that you're getting the thing that you ordered.

So we have the audio version of that conversation here, but again, I do recommend checking out the YouTube version, the video version of this conversation, because you get to see the shop where they make these rugs, and it's amazing, it's just stack after stack of these beautiful, stunning, handmade rugs, every single one made by hand, and you see it in the video, they're surrounded by these, with amazing designs, incredible detail, a beautiful setting, so it's a really nice experience, even to watch the video and learn all about it.

The link is in the description for this episode.

But either way, audio or video, we can't recommend enough this Women's Carpet Cooperative,

Both for the experience of shopping and the ethical experience too.

Their contact information is also in the notes for this episode. And absolutely, request it when you head on a tour. If you want to explore that part of Morocco, like we talked about in our last episode, the High Atlas region, Tilouet, the beautiful villages there, wonderful hiking, you get to Aït Ben Haddou with the famous Atlas movie studios, Ouarzazate has all kinds of culture and history too, and make sure you add this co op to your itinerary as well.

So reach out to Destination Morocco, Azdean, he'll get you all set up, and meanwhile, enjoy this conversation. 

AZDEAN: Continuing our recent theme of shopping, tipping and Traveling Safe in Morocco. Today's episode features the Akhnif Lglaoui Carpet Cooperative, located just south of Aït Ben Haddou, about 150 miles south of Marrakech. While we were on [00:04:00] our Southern Morocco tour, it was here where we met Sarah, host and guide of the facility, who gave us a tour and showed us the incredible weaving. and Rugmaking that is done there, all by women. This women's co op is groundbreaking and crucially important, not just to the local economy, but to women's recognition and self sufficiency. instead of relying on. others, typically men, to sell their detailed and complex creations, products of hours of hard work and labor, which are then often resold at even higher prices, which the women don't see extra time. At this co op, each weaver has a say in the price and value of their rug, and when it's sold, they get a very generous and appropriate percentage.

Imran and I sat down with Sarah to learn about her story and what brought her back to Aït Ben Haddou, now working to showcase the co op and its efforts, as well as teaching the women some English. Sarah discusses her journey from pursuing her degree in English studies in Marrakech to become a school teacher, and then finding the fulfillment in working with the co operative, she sheds, light on the co op's special impact, especially on helping women becoming financially independent. She also explained to us the shopping experience there, which puts an emphasis on removing the stress.

And pressure to buy that you typically find. At Akhnif Lglaoui, you are free to browse, learn about rugs and carpets, and perhaps even order one later from back home, once you have made the correct measurements in your house.

Reliable shipping, covered by [00:06:00] insurance, is handled by them, giving you peace of mind and flexibility. It is a breath of fresh air when it comes to shopping in Morocco, which you We'll appreciate after our last episode on tipping and shopping in Morocco And our November live Q& A, which we talked about safety and security, especially while shopping in Morocco. It is a refreshing to find a place that allows you to really appreciate the craft and work that goes into these unique individual creations. We also touched on the importance of educating current and future generations in the art of rug weaving to keep the scale alive. Akhnef Lglaoui has a bright future and we are pleased to support them and send our guests their way. Now, come with me. over the Atlas Mountains, down through the valley, past Aït Ben Haddou, where you will find a source of today's remarkable uplifting conversation. Enjoy this episode and thank you so much for joining us today. 

AZDEAN: Good afternoon. Welcome back to another amazing episode of Destination Morocco podcast.

We are Aït Ben Haddou, we are right in the middle of a women's cooperative, and we have today Sarah, and she's gonna be explaining to us, everything that needs to be known about the co op, about the carpets, Sarah, welcome to this Destination Morocco podcast. Nice to have you here today. 

SARAH: Thank you, thank you. 

AZDEAN: Please tell us, and tell the audience, what's your story? 

SARAH: Thank you. So, I'm a very normal girl, like all the girls here. I finished my studies here and then, uh, we don't have, like, a university, so you need to travel to another city to study.

Definitely. [00:08:00] So, I went to Marrakech and finished my study there for three years, bachelor degree in English studies. And after that I had an experience of teaching. Oh, wow. Right? I was teaching pupils. from 6 to 12. 6 to 12, ok. Yeah, but, I struggle a lot. Oh. It's, it's fine, but, I decided to come home, and... I found this kingdom here. I am very happy and glad. I appreciate that they give me this opportunity to speak about these women.

Absolutely. Yeah, so before, like, they have men to speak about them. I mean, they have, like, products, but... before they were men, speaking about the ladies, but now, I, I know exactly what you're saying. Of course, yes. 

AZDEAN: That's really, really important. So basically, there's no, better way to express women's than, than a woman in terms of everything that they do here.

and convey their message to tourists, to the public, to the buyers from all over the world. So, We are very grateful, extremely fortunate to work with you. And the feedback that we get is just beyond incredible. And thank you so much for your hard work and for the ladies hard work.

And, I mean, it's just incredible. So, I'm very fortunate today to be here. it took me four years to do this. It really, really did. we did a little bit of a tour. And it's just... One room, from one to the next, it just takes your breath away. It's just amazing, what you're doing here, Sarah. 

can you tell me the impact of this co op, in terms of, financial impact, especially for the ladies here, and also, I've seen five ladies waving. Carpets at the entrance. And then as we were talking, you said, no, there's more than just these five ladies, but there's more.

If you can explain to us a little bit more details, 

SARAH: please. Yeah. So, I mean, the aim of this co op is to help the [00:10:00] ladies at the first step. So before, like the ladies, they were, weaving in their houses, but there is no place to show their products in. So That's the aim of the co op, to be, I mean, established, right?

This is the first point, to help the ladies to gain some money, to help the families. Especially we have a lot of widowed ladies, like one of the ladies that you saw there, she is widowed, she has no children. Yeah, she needs, of course, yeah, true. So that's why, I mean, she's weaving, and, uh, we help. to show her products to the public.

Absolutely. if we sell her rights, she will get 80 percent from the carpet. I see. Okay, now she has, the ability to leave. 

AZDEAN: Yes. You know. Okay. So basically what you're saying is, this is one of the best ways for them to be independent.

True. Make their own money. Yes. And, There's a lot of freedom in that. So basically, the way that the co op is set up is you sell a carpet, the co op takes 20 percent sales commission, which is, in my opinion, very fair. And then she keeps 80%, which is amazing. 

SARAH: Wow. As well as like, a lot of ladies now, um, my generation is not weaving.

we went to school instead of learn how to weave. So one of the ladies out there, she is weaving the rug, sell them to help her daughter. Oh, wow. And she is an engineer now. Oh, wow. Yeah, she's very proud of her. Oh, wow. I mean, she pays her, university and renting, you know, what does it mean to study out.

In a different city, yeah. Yeah, true. Completely, yeah. And as I told you, it's a good experience for them. Uh, Fatima here, she's with them for 13 years. Oh, wow. And she has three daughters, and she helped them financially too. Yeah.

AZDEAN: This is beyond amazing. Yeah. Um, the other question that I have for you, Sarah, if you would please explain it to the audience. I'm familiar with, these verbs.

I know some areas that I make. Certain type of rugs better than some other areas. Mm-hmm. in the mountains, but I [00:12:00] see a variety of rugs is just incredible. Then there's few styles that stands out that I don't remember, but mm-hmm. , there is maybe some, something that is trendy if you can, explain that to the audience 

SARAH: So here, as I told you, each rock represents the geography of that place. Definitely. All right. Yeah. So there, uh, is one from the mountains.

Yes. So that's why it's like the Yes. Mountains and hills. Yeah. This one is very familiar, which Tes style. Yes, I SNA is a very famous town with, I mean, yeah. Quality ber rack re Yes. Um, Biniwarayn carpet, is, um, the place is very cold. So black and white. It's very thick. Yeah. Very thick. Very, I mean. Fluffy and warm. That's why they are using it. 

AZDEAN: Yeah. the style is very simple. Ah, yes. It's very simple. Yes. It's, you know, just black and white and it's 

SARAH: just incredible.

You know why? Because Diyamazigh culture, You know, they are using diamonds. Yes. So the diamond is a prediction from evil eye or bad luck. Yeah. That's why you will find the diamond in all the rags. Mostly. 

AZDEAN: Yeah. 

SARAH: Here, what makes this co op very special, we have rags. Only from the ladies that we have in this town here and the regions of this town. As well as we give the opportunity to our clients to discover the other racks.

Like we bring them from different 

AZDEAN: places. From different vendors that are a little bit far away. True. You bring them to the co op and show them to the guests. 

SARAH: Yes, exactly true. So some people like, they don't like traditional things. They want something modern, like that one or this one. a little bit modern but with a Moroccan touch.

So that's why like we, bring them or we give them this opportunity to live here as well. Okay. Yeah. Okay. 

AZDEAN: Perfect. Yeah. What else can you tell us why people should come here do business with you and contribute financially, even they can do so even without buying rugs from you? How can they do that?[00:14:00]

SARAH: All our, customers who visit us here, they just have fun. because here no one is pushing them to buy. Yes. So they came, they have the history. I teach them, you know, I told you I was a teacher. So basically Yeah. 

AZDEAN: You make it like an informational day. Sure. They get as much information as they want.

Exactly. No, no place for them to buy. No one is going, they have the choice to buy it then. Mm-hmm. , or they can go. anywhere, you know, back home and maybe get in touch with them and say, Hey, Sarah, remember that rug that you have showed me? I need it, but these are the measurements of my house. True. 

SARAH: Yes, a lot of people, I mean, they do like that, so, like, they came here, didn't play, to buy a rug. So they don't have, the dimensions or the measurements when they go, like, home. They go back home, they, measure the space, they send me by email or personal phone number, yeah, and then we ship it to them.

So here shipping is available, and in case you like something, and order the same, of course we make it too. Okay, 

AZDEAN: so the shipping, do you use FedEx, do you use DHL, 

SARAH: what type of shipping? We use post office or DHL, as the customer wants. I see. 

AZDEAN: Who takes care of the cost? Because this is a big one.

Who takes care of the cost of the shipping? Is it the client who is buying, or is it the co op that is selling? 

SARAH: No, no, I mean the client. When you, I give you like the price of the carpet, and the plus. So I say, if you want the price of the shipping, or you can just carry it with you. Okay, perfect. Yeah.

AZDEAN: Perfect. I mean, I'm just, I'm super excited. I see a lot of carpets. I just have seen rooms, and rooms, and rooms, and rows, and rows of. Carpets. Do you know what's your inventory here? How many carpets, if you have to guess, that you have 

SARAH: here? A lot. Just this room, I cannot count all of them, because we have a lot of women, and there are more than a hundred ladies.

And in the room there, too, we have a lot of rugs, so... Yes, I can see that. Yeah. All of the women, I mean, they need support, so that's 

AZDEAN: why... The reason why I'm asking you, because I looked [00:16:00] around, and it looks like... Thousands and thousands of them. Of 

SARAH: carpets, yes. 

AZDEAN: Yes, of carpets, yes. This is just incredible. So, I can smell tea.

Uh huh. And I would like to taste some tea. If Lola Fatima would take, you know, if you could pour us some tea, please. Thank you, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Mint tea. Mint tea, 

SARAH: yes. Tea everywhere in Morocco. Yes. And also when our customers visit us, This is what they get to experience as well.

Absolutely. We should. Of course, and they are very welcome. this is art that we, I mean, have to face to keep it alive.

Yes, absolutely. Especially as I told you, the next generation and my generation is that way 

AZDEAN: back. And how do you handle that, you know, I really did not even think of it, because I remember growing up, you know, coming to, to our village, I remember my aunts, they used to wave all the time. Yes. And, you know, when they are gone in my village nobody else is doing it, except maybe a few.

Elder ladies, we did an experience in my village yesterday, and they were still waving, but it's not as aggressively as it was in the past. True. So, what are you doing to keep the culture alive, to keep the tradition alive for waving? You said you have over a hundred women, what's the next generation?

How are you going to make them interested in doing... What their mom has done, what their grandmother has done, and so forth. 

SARAH: Yes, exactly. So, this art is passing from the grandma to the mother to the daughter. But unfortunately, we tried to keep this, I mean, this art alive by, I mean, we hope. The government can do something about this too, like, to make schools, to teach girls, and not to force them for sure, just like, to, teach, it's an option, yeah, to teach the girls, for me, I know few things about the rights, how to do it, yes, 

AZDEAN: yes, okay, yeah, that's a really, really good question, because I remember they go like this, yeah, 

SARAH: [00:18:00] street, like this again, this is, 

AZDEAN: I don't know, 40 something years ago, but, The thing is, what makes a rug special?

For example, you can show me two rugs. they look almost the same. But one costs, for example, 500. The other one costs 700 

SARAH: or so. Yes. Okay, so, can you have a look at this one here? Yes, yes. And that one, I mean, there, in front of you. Oh, I see. Okay. Can you see the details between this one and that one?

Yeah. Okay, so this one looks very finer, very detailed, and I mean more intricate. So now here the quality is talking. So this kind can be done by master ladies, not a normal can weave it. So, and the price is also decided by all the women. So the woman knows what she spend on that rug, the time and the work.

AZDEAN: Okay, So I see the two different styles and definitely there's... The biggest difference for me, well, one is the colors, but the attention to details. Mm hmm. So I can see here just doing this by hand. It's very difficult. So what sets the price is the amount of hours that it's invested in the carpet.

Okay, that makes sense now. Yeah. Also, doing the carpet, the difference is how many knots each carpet has. If you would explain that to me, and does it have any factor? of the price of the carpet, or it doesn't 

SARAH: matter? No, no, it's not necessary. Okay, let me show you between this style and that style, which is Bni Warayn.

Okay, this one here, the knots on this right here are more than that, even it's the same size. It's a 3 by 2 meters, 

AZDEAN: is part one? Yeah. 

Yeah, we're doing part two. You wanna be in part two? 

Perfect. 

So what else can you add to what we were talking about? Please, Sarah. 

SARAH: One [00:20:00] important thing I will thank, all the people who are visiting us. without him, they are not working. they have, The products, but no one is going. Yeah, if 

AZDEAN: without customers you simply do not exist it's really A team effort more than anything else. Exactly. It's a help me, help you, and we're working as a team. Yes. we looked for someone like you for a long, long time to work with, and again, I cannot say it enough.

We're very grateful for you. We really, really appreciate what you do here, locally, internationally, and we appreciate you taking care of our guests. Thank you so much. It's just, it's incredible, and it's really, really hard. You know, I live in the U. S., so there's a little bit of difference in the U. S. versus here, but I know things here are a lot more difficult.

You know, just to move one needle, it takes so much effort and work and hard work to do so. what happens behind the scenes. It's not an easy task. It's not an easy work. it's a lot of work. So, thank you so much. A year ago we did an episode four about scams. Mm hmm. And whether you go to FASS, whether you go to Marrakech, anywhere you go, it's how we are. Scams are everywhere. Yes. how can somebody make sure that they are not scammed by you? I'm not saying that you scam anybody, but...

How would they make sure that whatever the rug that they have picked is the one that it's been delivered to them? 

SARAH: You mean the same carpet? 

AZDEAN: Yes, let's say for example, I buy this carpet from Taznakht from you, and you ship it to me. How can I tell that quality that I have seen here is the same quality delivered to 

SARAH: me?

Okay, so here the first thing that we pay attention to is the insurance. So, for example... Insurance? Yes. Oh. We pay the insurance too. I had no idea. So, here, for example, you pick up this right here, I have to take a picture of you with your right. Oh, I see. Or you sign it for me. There is a place that you put in the back?

Yeah, we have a tag there. Yes, yes, yes. You sign it there, and we ship it. Some people, they get confused, maybe sometimes with the light, [00:22:00] okay? Yeah. And even if something happens, they just, I mean, send the carpet back, we pay the shipping again, and we send them the money. I see. They don't pay any extra charge.

Okay. Yes, that's the insurance here. So I want them to be very comfortable about this. Completely satisfied. Yes. in case they like it, I mean, when it delivered to their houses, if they like it or no, we can give them the money back. So you, 

AZDEAN: you basically, what you're saying is your service is a hundred percent guaranteed.

True. They'll get the quality that they have seen. From day one when they come to shop to you. Yes. So now what advice would you give to anyone visiting it? To anyone traveling to Morocco unstopping by your co op How to shop better in terms of carpets and avoid scams. 

SARAH: Okay, so here before we show This is a high quality one.

I can show them. So, yeah, as I showed you the difference between this one and that one. Okay. So I can show you the difference. This is what I'm doing to our customers. So when I'm, doing the presentation to our customers here, I show them also the difference in qualities.

So this is the first quality one. This is the second. So the first will be of course different than the other in terms of price. and each person is very welcome if he wants to buy or not, they are sincerely 

AZDEAN: welcome. Okay, so it's the same thing basically that we have mentioned earlier, you just, you make that session educational for them, so whether they buy from you, or they don't, if they go somewhere else, they know how to look for vugs, the quality of a good vug, and then if they buy from somebody else, They know what 

SARAH: to expect, yes.

The first sentence that I said before, when they just came here, I tell them five minutes and then you will be masters on the rocks. Yeah, so after five minutes they can tell me, this is first quality, this is second. That's very valuable. Yeah. So, 

AZDEAN: What else would you like [00:24:00] us to know, would you like the audience to know, 

SARAH: Uh, I want them to be sure that they are in safe hands. That's the point, that's the aim. That's the number one. Because, Before, I mean, the ladies, they were weaving.

They give the rugs to their husbands. They sell them in their markets. Oh, I see. And some people buy them again and weell them with higher prices. Oh, I see. Yes. Okay. But co-ops, I mean, you have the guarantee that you are in safe hands. Okay. 

AZDEAN: That is incredible. Yeah. So, what else do you do besides rugs? or they just completely rugs and carpets and everything? 

SARAH: No, here we have only carpets and rugs. in case they need something else, we advise them to the places that they can go. You make a recommendation. 

AZDEAN: It's true. Okay, so basically, yeah.

If somebody come in here for a day, for two, you make a recommendation and say, Hey, do this today, do this tomorrow. Oh, that's incredible. Exactly. 

SARAH: these ladies, they need support. Absolutely, 

AZDEAN: absolutely. And we will support you as much as we can. We'll send you as many clients as we can. And again, I cannot really thank you enough. This has been an amazing, amazing stop.

And I love it. 

SARAH: Thank you, Mr. Azdean. I love it. Thank you so much. Thank you, Imran. Um, also, I have a question. Yes, please. So whenever you sell a carpet to somebody, Uh huh. do you just get one quality of the carpet? Or do you get many qualities of the carpet so then you can keep one in this area? that's a good question.

So, for example, Imran, I have this one here, which is very unique. I have only this one. When I sell this one, I have to send this one. Okay, then I'll take another one. A little bit similar. It's not the same. You got me? Yeah, I got you. Any other questions, Bilal? Also, how long this generation been?

Oh, the generation, or do you mean the co op? I mean the co op. The co op, so the co op established since 2007, but it starts in a different, town. Oh, I see. And here it's since, uh, 2013. Oh, okay. A lot of years. Very [00:26:00] clever. 

And there is another thing. I teach them some English. Oh, nice, 

AZDEAN: nice. 

This has been an amazing episode. Thank you so much for being part of it. Thank you so much. Thank you, thank you, thank you.