Exploring Hiking & Berber Culture in Telouet, the High Atlas mountains of Morocco

Ted Cragg: Greetings everyone, this is Ted, Destination Morocco podcast producer. I want to jump in with a quick word before the start of this episode. This is in fact a video episode, so although we do have an audio version and the information is the same, I highly encourage you to check out the video version which is on our Destination Morocco YouTube channel.

This episode is a conversation between Azdean and a local guide from Tlouet by the name of Ali El-Haddadi. Ali is a trekking guide but also chaperones groups around the Tlouet region which is located on the south side of the High Atlas mountains so roughly three, three and a half hour drive from Marrakech and from Tlouet it's about another 45 minutes or so down the Tlouet towards Aït Ben Haddou and then Ouarzazate.

So this is the type of thing that makes a great addition to your tour itinerary. You can tack on a day or two and head out to the mountains and the hills and do some wonderful trekking and also get some great Berber or Amazigh cultural experience. Ali talks about that in this interview, about the types of things you can do, the things you can learn, and some of that history.

The people here have gone back many, many hundreds of years, if not more. We published this conversation about a year ago only in audio form, but now we have the video and it really adds an extra element. It's a beautiful production quality and really gives you a sense of what it feels like to actually be there.

Ali is a great example of the type of local guide who you can meet, especially in the sense that he speaks at least three or four languages. I'm sure English is probably his third at best, third or fourth language itself. We did add some subtitles to the video to help you understand, but it really is neat to hear him speak and see his passion for his town and his country.

So consider learning more about Telouet and that part of Morocco. And again, if you love trekking, and if you love cultural immersion, this is a great place to experience both at the same time. The link to the YouTube video is in the description here for this podcast episode. So we encourage you to check that out.

And one final note, the release of this episode, February 1st, 2025, marks the three year anniversary of our podcast. In that time, we've published over a hundred episodes, we've passed a hundred thousand total downloads, listeners from all around the world. So I want to take this opportunity to thank you very much for listening.

We hope you've learned lots about Morocco. We're always here to answer your questions, and we'd love to see you on a tour. As you've heard me speak in numerous episodes, Destination Morocco really does a wonderful job of showing people around the country in a personalized way. You can see what you want.

You can do what you want. You don't have to follow a big group and go where you're told. You can really craft your own tour. It's a wonderful way to see the country. And our podcast is a wonderful way to connect with you. So thanks again for these past three years. As you probably know, Morocco these days is getting more and more popular.

An even more exciting destination, so we're looking forward to lots more information and inspiration that we can share with you. Thanks for listening, thanks for watching, and we'll be back again in a couple weeks with another new episode.

Azdean: Welcome back to another amazing episode of Destination Morocco podcast. We are in the heart of Tlouet, we are exactly at Tlouet, at L'Auberge Auberge, 

Aali: restaurant Tlouet Chez Ahmed. 

Azdean: Auberge, restaurant Chez Ahmed, this is day one from our tour.

local time is about 9 p. m. And we have a very special guest today, his name is Mr. Ali ElHaddadi, and he's one of the locals. He's a local guide, historian, and in this episode we're going to talk about the Berber culture because that's the number one request that we have been receiving from a lot of the guests.

so he's going to give us a little bit of background, a little bit of history about the Berber culture, tradition, and so forth. And then he's going to talk about. himself as well. So, Mr. Ali, would you please introduce yourself to the audience and tell us a little bit about you? So, 

Aali: thank you very much coming to us and I will thank you very much.

Giving me this opportunity to introduce myself. So, my name is Ali el-Haddadi. So, what does mean Haddadi? It means blacksmith. Why? Because all over history, my ancestors, until my father, were the blacksmith. As well since beginning of glorious power, since 18th century. My ancestors as work as blacksmith, the best blacksmith, as well for jewelry.

Jewelry, okay. For that reason we, have a family name as, uh, blacksmith. Haddadi is blacksmith. Okay. So then my ancestors, uh, uh, skin of gazelle, of sheep where they read down. I see. So they write down. Yeah. Okay. Story about Kasbah. Okay. Caravans about, uh, people of Tilwet as well. I am born in this area, closer to this one, closer to the center.

Yeah. The center four kilometers from here. Oh, After, because since 1956, my father and my grandfather go out from Casbah.

Then I born in this village, after I, went to school since 1981,

primary in my village, own village. Then, high school in Ouarzazate. I spent seven years in high school. Then, I went to university in Marrakech. in which I studied economy. What's the 

Azdean: name of it? Qadiyat. Qadiyat, 

Aali: definitely. In Dawdiyat, and, uh, when I have my degree in, uh, economy, then, I spent some Years working in Agadir, for example.

Oh, I see. Then, I come back to Tilwet. To work as a guide. Local guide. Why? because I was very Impressed by other culture. Oh, I see. You understand to meet other culture to learn from other culture.

Sure. I have my badge since 2018. 2018. 

Azdean: So you're saying this is, this is our place, this is our home, and a lot of us are involved in the tourism industry directly or indirectly, and to you, it was a hobby until it became kind of, a professional, if you would, then it has your local guide license, then it has your, national guide license.

Can you tell us the difference between a local guide versus a national guide? So, uh, 

Aali: local one you need to be expected place where you I see. You're growing up, you are growing up. The national one, you must know All the country. Yeah, all Moroccan sites. Okay. In terms of history, in terms of tradition, in terms of, uh, city, in terms culture, everything.

That's very 

Azdean: interesting. So basically, a national guide, you can travel with the guests throughout Morocco without issue because you have your badge. Yeah. Okay, perfect. 

Aali: but, because I am, comfortable here. Yes. Uh, and as well, I know a lot of people, coming and coming back, so for that reason I prefer to 

Azdean: stay, yeah, okay, makes sense, yeah, it makes sense. So, you're Berber, I'm a Berber, this is our culture. A lot of people are not familiar with our culture. A lot of people are wondering, they have a lot of questions about our culture.

Who are the Berbers? Where do they come from? and so forth. Can you tell us a little bit of history about the bourbons, different types of bours, the south versus the north versus the , mountains versus suits. Give us a little bit of background and history. So, first I, 

Aali: I would like to give some clarification about Berber and what does mean bear, before Islam came to Morocco.

And as well, North Africa, the indigenous were Berber. All North Africa, Algeria, Morocco, for example. In the Atlas Mountains, spreading throughout North Africa. Berber. They are indigenous. But is plenty of, uh, Berber community in Morocco.

Does mean as well there is plenty of Berber dialect in Morocco. So, Telawet for example, we are Shlouh. Shlouh. From high atlas and western anti atlas. Ok. Shlouh. Shlouh. And, Shlouh is We 

Azdean: speak Tashlihit. Tashlihit is the language. 

Aali: So, many thousand years ago, there was Berber shlöh in this area. And normally, Berber, Berber community refused this name, Berber.

You know why? Because it was foreign to our culture. It's a Name that the first conquerors, I mean, Romans. Yes, the Romans, yes. The Romans and even the Greeks, when they come, start to come to Morocco, they, those indigents. we prefer Amazigh, which one means free. Yes.

Amazigh freedom. 

Azdean: Berber means wild. Okay, so let me just make sure I understand just to give a little bit of explanation to the audience. So, Berber was given to us by, Westerners, by the Romans, because the Berber came from, originally from barbarians, uh, savages. but the original name is Amazigh, which means free, freedom.

And a lot of people in Morocco, they don't really like to be called Berbers, but they prefer actually to be called Amazigh. which means free people. thank you for explaining that to us. It's really, really, really important. So, what else can you share with us about 

Aali: the culture?

 So, now in High Atlas. Yes. So, Berber Shlouh in the High Atlas have existed since many thousand years ago. where do the Amazigh or the Berber come from? What's the origin, the origin of the 

Just before 

first, I will give some formation about , community, So, so, since time of Roman, the Romans, 

Azdean: okay. There were Jewish coming here. Yes. Yeah. To tell what? They were 

Aali: persecuted by Roman. They stayed until, for example, Israel was created. That means those people coming as well, they became Berber.

In terms of my knowledge, until 1948, 20 percent of people living here are Jewish. until what, It's very characteristic. 

Azdean: Very people all together. 

Aali: Mixed. Mixed in. Yeah. Living all together. Wonderful ation, peacefully.

we have friend, sometimes Jewish come back and they speak B course. 

they are mixed in terms of culture. Yes. They are mixed in terms of skin. Yeah. Yes. Skin doesn't mean you can see black people, white people. In terms of culture, as I told, there was Jewish, there was Berber.

So it's a place For everyone. Yeah. where plenty of culture live together peacefully. 

Azdean: Absolutely. Okay, the other question that I there's, the culture between the Jews and the Muslims, especially in here, you can't really tell the difference because they're all mixed in.

and in some cities, you can look at somebody and say, Oh, he looks Jewish, for example, or he looks Berber, because the Berbers, they have distinctive facial features and stuff like that. So, inherently, because of that coexistence, you can't really tell somebody's Jewish or not Jewish. And, you know, when I was growing up, I couldn't tell.

I didn't see no difference. but, I still see in my own village, little bit of the culture and the tradition back to the Jewish, time. I also know for a fact that there's a synagogue from the 8th century in a very close by village in Eghelbian. it's not really well maintained, but there's an opportunity to maintain it, uh, restore it.

So in this type of, you know, in the mountains and Kluwert and the neighboring, villages, the culture was mixed. so you can see, In the Berbers, there's a lot of Jewish influence, whether it's in the food, whether it's in, you know, the architecture, whether it's in the color, the fabric and stuff like that, which is, which is a really good thing.

So a lot of people don't know this, about, the local community or the Jewish community. So, Mr. Ali, for people that are visiting Tliwet, Tliwet is a little bit known to the Europeans, but it's extremely invisible to the West, in the U. S., in Canada, and so forth. what can you tell about Tlouet to those visitors, to those tourists, what should they expect?

So, 

Aali: in my experience working many years in tourism. All visitors coming to Tiruat, they are fascinated when they arrive there.

Azdean: Oh, I can see. Yeah, for sure. 

Aali: As well, most of those visitors come in mostly from Europe. Yeah. We have some other visitors coming, but few, from United States of America. But most we know from Europe. A lot of them Come and come back and yes, because in term of beautiful 

experience and yes, the beautiful time they, we spend together.

Absolutely. Absolutely. . terat is rich in term of diversity. Of people. Yeah. this coexistence between many different culture. Second because Terat fall of history. Yeah, for sure. All of history. Ter what was connection? Yeah, yeah. Between Africa and Europe via caravan. I see.

I see. All of the history caravans came from. Africa, from Niger, from Mali, from Sudan, from Mauritania, with 

Azdean: object to their value. Yeah. Like 

Aali: slaves, gold, silver, emerald, spices, expensive stuff. Then as well is very rich in terms of geology.

Yeah. Plenty of Yes. Oh, absolutely. Plenty of plenty from until AÏt Ben Haddou. So, it's very rich, different colors, red, white. So, caravans came through here? Because Telwat was very rich in terms of salt mine. Yes, yes. There was plenty. Especially in the salt was money.

Yeah. The most important money in former time until until even 1980 or 1990. 

- break -

Azdean: The call for prayer has ended, so it is in our culture to, to respect Adhan. And thank you. Uh, so we were talking about salt and the importance of salt in our culture, especially also when it comes to animals and raising animals, not just for humans, but also for animals. It has a lot of health benefits.

And I remember as a kid, we give salt to the sheep, to the goats, to, to the cows as well. And also I remember my uncles, or my cousins bringing salts from the fields. During the weekly souk, which is in Thursday, people buy salt and normally it's, it's like a, it's not a powder, but it's a rock. And I remember it used to be pink. Some of it was pink. so yes. If you can elaborate a little bit on the importance of salt. in our culture. Especially in Tliwet and also in terms of raising animals.

Aali: So first, for animals, they take salt from mine to, for example, to stable. Oh, I see. For animals, to lick it every morning. Because it, it kill 

Azdean: germs. Oh, I see. it. Yes, yes. I remember in my case, my grandfather, he used to have. a big stone, as big as a pillow. And he will hold it. At that time, the sheep, will come from the field. They have eaten their grass and everything, and he'll give it to them.

But he also gives them, um, barley. And they do this to make them strong. especially when, you know, if they're going to sell them afterwards or just to keep them in shape and healthy. So, I remember a little bit of the culture, but not a lot. So, um, okay. What about the importance of it to 

Aali: Tlouet? besides being money in former time for caravans trading, for example, use it preserve.

Azdean: Oh, I see. To preserve. Okay. Uh, like meat. 

Aali: Uh, because in the former time, Salt 

Azdean: was the. One of the ingredients. Yeah. Ingredients 

Aali: used to preserve batter, food, as well for industry of skin. Hmm. for. Hammam, to build a Hammam. Okay, 

Azdean: yes, I remember. So, just gonna elaborate a little bit of what you have said, Mr.

Ali. for Hammam, which is the traditional Moroccan Hammam, or, steam bath, some call it, when they built the Hammam, the salt normally is going to be the first layer. put on the ground before they built anything else. So everything is built on top of a layer of salt. I remember this very clearly.

And also I, I wanted to add something to what you have said to preserve the meat back then even, maybe 15 or whatever years ago. nobody had, you know, refrigerators. We didn't have light growing up in the village. So it was just candles, you know, and other means, to get light.

But I remember during a certain time when you have, a lot of meat or excessive meat, to preserve it, especially during the holidays I've seen my grandmother do it, I've seen a lot of my family do this, but they, they hang the meat, and then what they do is, they apply salt and they apply olive oil to it that way the meat does not get spoiled and also It stays fresh Normally the meat is consumed completely within a few days, but it also stays fresh So they may have to remove the first layer of the meat, but anything else underneath it It looks really fresh 

Aali: and we still have family the The same.

Oh, wow. Same technique. Technique until today. Oh, wow. And me, sometimes I, I preserve it for many, many months. Oh, 

Azdean: wow. And when we eat it, mostly in couscous. 

Aali: Yes, yes, yes. It's very tasty and it's very, it's a Berber food. 

Azdean: It is, it is. It's a special food. Are you talking about Kurdish? 

Aali: Okay,

Azdean: Kurdess is a little different and Kurdess, it's a delicacy, it's a Moroccan delicacy and uh, you have to understand, in the beef, the goat, the cow, nothing really goes to waste. We, we eat everything. for me, the Kurdess, it's a, it's intestines and it's kind of rolled up against each other and it gets dried up with a little bit of meat inside.

And then, it's served specially, with couscous on special, you know, Friday, normally. But, the funny thing, my memory as child, I always knew when my mom or my aunts have made couscous with kurdes because of the smell. It has very strong smell, and I could not eat it, but it was delicious to them.

May I like it? I think I'm the only one in the family who does not eat it, but everybody else just loves it. So that, that was just incredible. If you can share more about the culture about, you know, especially when it comes to food and stuff like that.

Aali: First, will finish with salt. Okay, thank you. As well, it is very useful for health. For example, I remember my father as well, besides being blacksmith, he make a kind of physiotherapy with salt. Oh, I see. For animals, for when they have problems in their body. 

Azdean: Okay, so physical therapy. Yeah, yeah, 

Aali: yeah.

Salt mine and do. Olive oil, and his hand, kind of massage then. Animal of people recover after 

Azdean: that. But here's the thing, though, very interesting that you said that, I know a lot of people, they have a special gift. This is not anybody can do it, probably I could be wrong, but it's a special gift that few people have with that healing kind of You know, massage and healing power.

that was very special. 

Aali: As well, today, right now, the soul has other, benefits. For example, spiritual one. I see. When you feel, for example, like depressed or tired, with soul mind and water. When you take shower, you get a kind of 

Azdean: consolation.

Hmm, 

perfect. What else can you share with us in terms of the culture?

What, what can people expect, besides everything that you have just mentioned, 

Aali: there is plenty of activity we can do here. Okay. Like hiking. trekking. Okay. So because Telwet as well is connection in the high atlas between Eid Mubarak and Topkan.

So, yes, it is a Trip of Across of high atlas. Yes. So as well we make Trekking from here to Eid Mubarak to walking. I see, walking. 

Azdean: Yeah. Oh, that's quite a bit of a 

Aali: distance. All over valley and as well just would like to give one information about Valley Ounila, the way to Aït Ben Haddou. Yes. one of the most important, painters called Jacques Majorelle.

Yes. Which one has garden in Marrakech. Yes. Majorelle Garden Before Marrakech, he was living here between Telouet to Aït Ben 

Haddou. 

Azdean: He make Ounila village. And all this valley. , it was 

Aali: painted by Jacques Majorelle Oh wow. 

So, 1920 until 1928. majorelle was impressed by, first by landscape, by color, and by architecture, old architecture.

So today we have a kind of. tourist come in just to follow the trip of Jacques 

Azdean: Majorelle 

Just to, 

Aali: And as well, today, There is event, international event, which give big promotion Tilwet. called Atlas Race Mountains. Okay, 

Azdean: Atlas Race Mountains. We had 

Aali: the third edition last February, for example. Okay, February, okay. Last February, for example, we had about 200 riders. Oh, wow. They started from Marrakech, then arrived to 
Essaouira. Over Atlas Mountains, 24 hours.

Oh, wow. So, now it's getting, famous. according to this event and Money International Magazine, talk about this event about tette. Okay, perfect. 

Azdean: What would a normal itinerary look like for somebody who's visiting, Tilwet? how much time do they need to be in Tilwet? I know you mentioned a few things, here in Tilwet. as activities that they can do. What else can they do in Tlouet?

Is two days good? Is one day good? Is three days or a week good enough for Tlouet, or is it too much? 

Aali: example, for walking. I organize trekking. Six days of trekking. From here to Ait Ben Haddou, or from here to Ait Bou Gammaz, over Lake Tamda, 

Azdean: So, six days. Personally, for me, six days is way too much. Personally. But, 

Aali: Most tourists if they stay for long, tell what, not more than two days.

Okay, I see. Just two. Yeah. Why? Because, difficult to have distraction, for example. We have a kind of Ahwesh dance, but you know, they want more distraction. Of course. And as well, according to their, uh, schedule, 

Azdean: yeah. Itinerary. The itinerary, 

Aali: they have much to see. see how it's short, but in this short time they want to see Plenty of things, plenty of places. 

Azdean: So, in Tliwet, they shouldn't do more than two days. In this case, I definitely agree.

Aali: walking over valley, for example, from, or around Tiliwet. Okay. And there is, there is a kind of tourist today, recently, they are looking to go the first day, for example, from Ober to top of Tizi Tiliwet.

Yes. Then the other day. Yes. Other village. kilometers from here. 

Azdean: I got you. You know, for me, As a child, one of the most popular destinations was Asni. I never had a chance to do it. the kids, my cousins, and everybody that went, they really, really loved it.

They get to it through Ounila Valley, I believe. but for me, it was Asalon Sara. That was my favorite. As Ronsara, I mean, we, we wake up at about 5 a. m. and we just climb mountains and you look at the mountain and you think that's it. You climb that mountain, but there's another huge mountain behind it.

Then you climb it, then you find the third mountain, then the fourth mountain. So it was a lot of fun for us as kids, but also it was very, very hard to do. And then when we get to the destination, it's just, it's incredibly beautiful. and I remember the windows. And also I remember one time. Obviously, we do this with the local, uh, you know, my cousins, they have to be with us, otherwise, we have no idea where we're going.

Uh, so, one time what happened to us, it was just city boys, me and my cousins, and, we thought we were gonna go up and just have fun, but the thing is, we got lost. if you're not local, there's four seasons in one day here in Tlouet. So Yes. And what happened, it was about three or four o'clock and it started raining.

And when it rains, the mountain becomes kind of really dark gray, and it's very hard to see. So we got lost. and if you don't know where you're going, you'll be lost for probably four days. but it was at the end, we found our way, and uh, it was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. We're about to conclude this episode.

You've been very helpful, very informative, and I really, really, really appreciate it. is there any other questions that I should have asked you, but I did not, Mr. Ali? 

Aali: the question is about how we can, make Tiruat more Visible. Uh, This history, tell what have, in term of caravans, in term of, culture, in term of, uh, diversity, so the question, how we can, contribute 

Azdean: in development.

That's a very good question. You want me to answer it, or do you want to answer 

Aali: it? I don't know about. Okay, here's really 

Azdean: the way that I see it. Few years ago, Tlouat did not exist in any map. if you're not from here, if this is not your culture, this is not your turf, you wouldn't know where you're going.

It just does not exist. In the map, it just looks like a mountain. But now with technology, you know, exactly what it is. You know, Imonin versus Ozlem, in the other villages. So, technology has definitely helped, but also when you look at Europe and from Europe, they are a lot more familiar with Morocco than other tourists from different parts of the world.

So for me, the challenge is, the government expanding the knowledge and promoting the destination, which I know they're doing really, really, really good job. And I've seen their ads in the media. I've seen it on TV. I've seen it in New York, especially recently.

But the thing is it's where you are from, let's say we live in the U S but. The South is really not popular in the U. S. The North definitely is, but the South is not popular. Um, if you look at, Asia, Pacific Asia, the same thing, a lot of people love Morocco, but they have not enough information about Morocco.

So, for me, it's a really collective effort. And this is one of the reasons why we're doing what we're doing today, because we want to promote the South. We want to promote your village, my village, our Kluwet. It belongs to all of us. it did so much for all of us and it's time for us to give something back to it.

it's probably going to take a few years to get to that level. don't think it's ever going to be kind of equal between tourists from Europe versus tourists from the U. S. it's going to take some time, for sure. But eventually, Tlouet will get the recognition it deserves. And, The popularity deserves, because in terms of culture, history, it's thousands and thousands of years of layers of all those things.

So, and it's, it's very beautiful. I, I love it. It's been four years for me, since I've been here last time. And I'm beyond thrilled and excited. I mean, I say the same thing in every, whatever we post, but it is the truth. And I, I, I love my culture. I love my people. And, um, personally, I'll do my part. 

Aali: what we have right now in terms of, uh, in we have it just 

Azdean: because of 

Aali: Many international books, guides. Can I give examples? Of course. For example, Lonely Planet, and other guides.

So, that means Just foreign people might help us to make it. 

Azdean: Oh, a hundred percent. I 

Aali: totally agree. Promotion. For me, those visitors, our ambassadors. Absolutely. And, the other point, Moroccan state is not involving in term of investment to increase tourism in the world. But I am very optimistic, because we have some, recently we have the new vision, the new mayor, for example.

He has global vision about how we can, get more, activity, more dynamism in 

Azdean: Tilwet. I completely agree. 

It's going to be a team effort for sure. Well, Mr. Ali, really, really appreciate you. Thank you so much for your time.

It's been a pleasure having you as a guest in Destination Morocco podcast, Thank you so much. Inshallah. Inshallah. 

Aali: Thank you. Thank you very much. Coming from far away. Thank you. Thank you to our city and thank you very much.

spending, thank you so much, this beautiful time with us. sir. And all the best. 

Azdean: Thank you.