Exploring the Magical City of Fez. Live Q&A

[00:00:00] TED: How are you guys doing today?

[00:00:37] AZDEAN: Excellent.

[00:00:38] SAM: Thank you. Excellent. Thank you very much.

[00:00:40] TED: Well, I'm excited to head back to Fez.

[00:00:42] AZDEAN: Oh, we all are.

[00:00:44] TED: We've been doing kind of series of episodes and we haven't really focused on Fez, we, it certainly shows up in lots of places, but, you know, in terms of like real, Dedicated series of episodes.

[00:00:54] So that's why we thought, Hey, it's time. Let's talk some more about Fez and, yeah, it brings back great memories [00:01:00] because we were there, my family and I just, just over a year ago now, and it's one of the most memorable stops of our trip. It was amazing being. Right in the heart of the Medina experiencing it all.

[00:01:09] We were there for three days and you guys of course were there too, last summer on your big tour as well. So it's fresh memories for all of us.

[00:01:15] AZDEAN: Absolutely.

[00:01:17] SAM: absolutely. Yeah. 

[00:01:17] TED: Yeah. So, uh, we figured we'd do a little bit of kind of, um, a bit of background history, you know, what makes Fez so unique and special and things like that. But, we'll also talk about some. Practical tips, things people can see and do is this follows up a bit on our most recent episode, which came out, March 11th, which is also a bit of an overview of Fez that was more structured around, say, if you had a four day itinerary and four days basically, and what you could do.

[00:01:43] So we're going to kind of expand on that. And I'm sure a lot of this will go together and much of it's thanks to the questions we've had from our listeners and viewers. So thanks very much people for sending stuff in.

[00:01:54] AZDEAN: Absolutely.

[00:01:55] TED: I made a few notes about some history, but of course, you guys know more than me, so you can fill, fill [00:02:00] in some of the gaps, but, uh, I was interested, well, maybe, tell me if this is true, so, I learned that the city's name may refer to the Arabic word for pickaxe. Have you heard that before?

[00:02:11] AZDEAN: Yes.

[00:02:12] SAM: Yes. Yeah. One of the, one of the stories.

[00:02:14] TED: Okay. and this goes back, what, I mean, 1200, 1300 years or something? I mean, 

[00:02:19] SAM: yeah, it's not 12 centuries, because we talk about a country, not about a city. So, uh, so Fez is, is, is a city in Morocco, so Morocco dated back to the more than 20, 000 years ago. So the coming of the Idrisid dynasty to Morocco to talk about this and to give it its name exactly, which is, pickaxe or something like that

[00:02:42] TED: Mm-Hmm. 

[00:02:43] Okay. Yeah. And that's interesting context too, you know? And I mean. It's easy to say, well, 1, 000 or 1, 300 years ago, of course, is a long time, but in the context of 000 years, it's practically yesterday. Yeah. But all that being said, I mean, I think in [00:03:00] modern terms, it is one of the older, maybe settlements with an ongoing footprint, you could say, in Morocco, like it's been settled, all those many centuries.

[00:03:08] So, I do remember when we were there that in our part of our walking tour and I think I'll try to pull up a map here too maybe because we can share our screen and stuff I remember a bit of the river that goes through the old part of the city the old Medina which is the river Fez and a lot of it's kind of hidden underground and stuff now but there's parts where it pops out and originally the city was founded on both sides of this river and it kind of eventually grew into one big city really as we know now,

[00:03:35] SAM: Yes, that's right. That's correct. The, so, the, the name maybe comes from the name of the river, which called ze. or also came from the, the, the ber or the word A, which is the right side of the river. And first also comes from the right side of the river.

[00:03:54] Which means a fest. A fest, which means the right, right hand.

[00:03:59] TED: Okay. [00:04:00] Interesting. So the, is it fair to say the famous one is the Qarawiyyin Mosque, the al-Qarawiyyin mosque?

[00:04:06] AZDEAN: It's, yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah. It's one of the oldest. Some say it's the oldest in the world, 

[00:04:12] SAM: Yeah, the Qarawiyyin University used to be a mosque in the beginning. and then when the Idrisid comes, to Morocco, they, they took Fes as, as the capital. Then the Qarawiyyin University started to be a madrassa or Quranic school. Then they developed to be a university because All the Moroccans and other Islamic countries, they came to Fes to learn and, uh, about the religion, especially, from this university.

[00:04:40] This is how it, it became a university, uh, and the first one in the world.

[00:04:46] TED: So it's still going strong today.

[00:04:48] SAM: and this it's still maintained today. And right now in Morocco, they created like affiliates for this university in each big city in Morocco, like, for example, Marrakech, we have Collegiate Sharia or the [00:05:00] College of Islamic, religion studies in Agadir, we have it in Rabat, we have it in Tangier, we have it everywhere in Morocco and all they belong to the mother university, which is Al Qarawiyyin .

[00:05:11] TED: Okay.

[00:05:12] Wow. 

[00:05:13] If people want to visit, is it open to the public? can people go in and do a tour?

[00:05:17] SAM: For the tourists, for the travelers now, it's not allowed to get inside. it's not a visited mosque.

[00:05:24] TED: Right. 

[00:05:24] Can you see much from the outside when you walk around?

[00:05:27] AZDEAN: You can see a little bit. Yeah, you can see a little bit. You can take pictures. they might let you just take a few steps, maybe. But you won't get into the courtyard. I mean, the courtyard, you're not going to be able to go into.

[00:05:39] TED: Okay. and then now here's another thing. So I was reading that by the 12th century, Fez was one of the largest cities in the world, around 200, 000 people, they say, which is massive for that time.

[00:05:51] And another one of the famous things is the Madrasa, the Buwananya Madrasa.

[00:05:57] SAM: yeah, Bu'inaniya Midrassa, yes,

[00:05:59] TED: which I [00:06:00]

[00:06:00] SAM: is created by the, Sa'diyin Dynasty during their rule of the Unifes, yeah,

[00:06:06] TED: oh I remember that because when we were there we walked through one of the famous gates

[00:06:10] AZDEAN: Yes.

[00:06:11] Yeah, and this gate, just to give the audience a little bit of perspective, this is what we talked about.

[00:06:17] the color for Fas is the blue, and this is basically what that, you know, this is the blue color of Fas. So when you, when you walk through that gate, and you turn around, you'll see the same thing, but instead of the blue color, it's the green color.

[00:06:29] And the green color, that's it. So the green color, you know, it's for Islam and peace. 

[00:06:33] TED: and that's one of those famous views when you're going into the city, to the medina, and you see the minaret there, and the madrasa, right,

[00:06:40] SAM: Yeah, exactly. Yes. From there, from there, you head directly to the al- Qarawiyyin and to the tanneries and so on and so forth. 

[00:06:48] TED: Yeah. Okay. And then I want to talk about the Jewish Mellah, which, um, is near the Royal Palace,

[00:06:55] AZDEAN: Yeah. It's, it's, some part of it is attached to the rail palace, uh, on one [00:07:00] side and across the street, which is, it's a small street The Millah was placed, next to the, the royal palace that way there's a protection from the king at that time.

[00:07:11] So, uh, nobody bothers the Jewish community at that time. 

[00:07:15] TED: remember those windows 

[00:07:16] AZDEAN: yes, yes.

[00:07:17] So. 

[00:07:18] SAM: recognize by the balconies and the windows. Yes.

[00:07:20] AZDEAN: Yes, and those windows are that way because at that time people they don't want to show off what they have. They are very modest they don't want you to peek to what's inside their houses but once you go inside the house it's a beautiful beautiful garden.

[00:07:32] Riads house is Magical, I mean, you know from banana trees to citrus trees to water fountains It's just you cannot tell what's inside That's a house, but those are the old riads, And we were very fortunate, to have had, you know, Mullah Hafid as a guide, and we did an extensive tour in the Jewish, Then we went to a synagogue.

[00:07:53] Oh my God, the hospitality, the people, they were just beyond incredible to us and amazing. 

[00:07:59] Then [00:08:00] from the terrace, you can see, it looks right to the, the Jewish cemetery. And it's just, it's a very touching moment. I mean, you will feel it when you, when you do that site, when you did the Jewish Koror, you go to the synagogue and you go to the roof. Uh, I mean, it's just, it's beyond incredible.

[00:08:15] when you go into the, the cemetery, it's open to anybody to go in. 

[00:08:20] SAM: And the cemetery is very clean, by the way, very clean and well organized. we did this probably a lot of people do when they drive in and you might come from the Southeast, but there's a good chance to be coming from like Meknes and the big expressway highways.

[00:08:33] TED: Right. So. You drive in, I remember going through here, these boulevards in the Ville Nouvelle and it's like big modern buildings and condos and shopping malls and stuff and then you go around this corner and down the hill and nope, you go back about 600 years.

[00:08:48] AZDEAN: Yes, that is correct. Yes. Yeah. And you can see it from the map. Yeah. 

[00:08:52] It's very, Yes. Yeah, Fez was the capital and people might know this, but Fez was the capital of, Morocco till [00:09:00] 1912. And then the French moved it to Rabat.

[00:09:01] TED: I was wondering, like, it's probably entrenched now, but was there ever talk about the moving the capital back to Fez? 

[00:09:08] SAM: I don't think so that it will go back to Fez, because it was in Fez in the beginning with dynasty, then it's moved to Marrakech, then it's moved to other cities, 

[00:09:17] there is many attempts to get it back to first during last century with the king Hassan II, but he insisted that Rabat have to maintain the main political capital of Morocco for now.

[00:09:32] TED: Well, that's a good point though, because you have these palaces and kind of government buildings in all the big cities, right? I mean, Casablanca and Marakesh, and Fez is a good example too.

[00:09:42] SAM: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:09:43] TED: Alright, so here's a good question we got. Now, essentially, I'll paraphrase a bit, but other cities have medinas, palaces, distinct cuisine, craftsmanship, and across Morocco. What makes Fez unique?

[00:09:56] AZDEAN: I would say number one is the people, the [00:10:00] craftsmanship. The pride that craftsmanship do and take, to learn the skill that it's passed through generations. there are certain things that only the fussy people can really do in Morocco. when we're talking, you know, about ceramic, when we're talking about leather, even carpets.

[00:10:15] It reminds me of the visit that we did, Sam during the summertime to the ceramic shop.

[00:10:20] I mean, for me, that was beyond incredible experience. It was mind blowing. I mean, it was just magical. Everything they have done. I mean, the tour was well done, well done, well organized. Uh, the steps, making this and that and so forth. Then, what fascinating, I mean, it was just one of the most amazing first impressions for me.

[00:10:40] we had that gentleman greet us, and then he took us to this master, ceramic, I forgot the name that he's called, and he made the bottom of the tagine, I mean, live, you know, like in just right there, like 30 seconds. Then he made the top. Uh, there's no measurements. I mean, just by his hand. And then he put the top, you know, and the bottom [00:11:00] part and it fits perfectly.

[00:11:01] I mean, for me, I was like, this is impossible. But then it took him years and years. And I don't know how many tries. Probably hundreds, if not thousands. So, um, that's what really makes Fas, um, you know. And also, Fas holds a lot of, um, Moroccan traditions that in other cities, they're gone. 

[00:11:19] SAM: Absolutely. Beside what Azdean just, said about Fes, we can talk about food. What makes Fes unique, when it comes to food, especially pastilla or pastilla. in Arabic. When it comes to the salads, the pastries as well, Fes is just unbelievable. Um, traditions, especially during the weddings, Fes is unique, rather than other cities in Morocco, because as Azdean just said, they still keep and still maintain many, traditions that is almost distinct from, from the other cities in, other parts in Morocco.

[00:11:57] TED: So the things that only happen in Fez, at least in terms of 

[00:11:59] [00:12:00] weddings.

[00:12:00] AZDEAN: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. First, first, I mean, it's first, you could say first, it's probably it's on New York, you know, it's things that they do in fast. They're very unique, very different, very related to fast. Even the music, the music is just beyond amazing. It's, it's, it's incredible. It's very different. um,

[00:12:19] TED: instruments, or just different ways they play?

[00:12:21] AZDEAN: It is different instruments and a different way of singing. It is different lyrics, different, everything is different. It's just, it's, it's incredible. Yeah.

[00:12:29] SAM: yeah, talking about the music, for example, which is called the Music Le Melhoun, it's a traditional Andalusian Moroccan music. it exists, in Titouan, in Tangier, in Chefchaouen as well. But the one in Fes is very unique and very famous. This is why they celebrate International Festival of

[00:12:46] AZDEAN: Yes.

[00:12:47] SAM: Spiritual Music in Fes each year, 

[00:12:49] TED: about that. The festival of sacred music. We

[00:12:54] SAM: that's right. Yeah.

[00:12:55] TED: Do you find with your tours when people are making inquiries, put their [00:13:00] itinerary together, are they showing interest in going to Fez?

[00:13:02] AZDEAN: Oh, a hundred percent. If, if the north side of Morocco is part of the itinerary, Fes is a must. You know, I said this to many people, many times, and I mean, I am from Marrakech, but I love Fes. and who wouldn't? I mean, it's just a beautiful, beautiful city. So, and I said this as well, when, if you have one day to spend in Morocco, spend it in Fes.

[00:13:23] You know, some might say Marrakech, but for me, I would say Fes. Because it's, again, when I, when I say Fes, I really mean the culture, I mean old tradition. Yes, the heritage, it's, it's everything. Marrakech is still good. It's an amazing, beautiful, beautiful city. And in terms of tourism, it always ranks every year top five globally every year.

[00:13:44] But you know, uh, not to take anything away, but Fes is definitely, culturally and holding to the culture, uh, definitely Fes is more than Marrakech.

[00:13:53] SAM: I agree, a hundred percent because the people of Fez, they just work hard

[00:13:58] AZDEAN: Yes.

[00:13:59] SAM: every day [00:14:00] and night to keep the city the best and to the top. for example, for the entrance fees to the monuments to the historical monuments in Morocco, they all added extra fees to the monuments except in Fez.

[00:14:14] In fact, they kept, yes, they kept it as it is, only 1 to 2 as an entrance fee to the historical monuments. Unlike the other cities, they just, between 7 to sometimes 12, sometimes 15, especially in Marrakech and Casablanca. 

[00:14:30] TED: Oh, well, that's good. 

[00:14:32] And do you guys know the story of the hat? So here's the thing. Cause I would, I, that was my impression. I, before I learned all this stuff, like, Oh, Fez is the hat, the square hat. Right. Which I did look up later. I mean, that was popularized at least in Turkey, in Ottoman Turkey, but there's a connection, I think, in that the hats were made in Fez, the city, or the leather came from there or something like that.

[00:14:57] Do you guys know about any of that story?

[00:14:59]

[00:14:59] SAM: the hat [00:15:00] originated in Fez, not in Turkey as, as, as I read in book histories. And they are not the same by the way, if you see the ones in Turkey and the ones in Morocco is totally different in terms of the shape. ' cause the ones in Turkey is just wide like that and the fest is narrow And it's originally from Morocco. 

[00:15:20] AZDEAN: At that time of the Ottomans, they tried to occupy Morocco and at that time, the king was, 

[00:15:26] SAM: Mehl,

[00:15:27] AZDEAN: I keep forgetting the name. Thank you. So, and that work, kept going for 80 years or so. fighting the Ottomans on the east and the pirates on the west. And many things were happening at the same time. So probably Ottomans, they saw the hats at that time, because of that, and they tried to make their own, but like Sam said, they are very different, very unique, the ones, Morocco, are unique to us, to our culture, um, the ones in Turkey, they are a little bit long, pointy, and they look not quite similar, but they are different, so,

[00:15:59] SAM: And the colors as [00:16:00] well. The one in Turkey is black and the one in Morocco 

[00:16:02] TED: Okay, red,

[00:16:03] red, 

[00:16:03] Yeah, 

[00:16:04] SAM: the Moroccan flag.

[00:16:06] AZDEAN: yes, wear them with the, with the, the green thing,

[00:16:09] SAM: Yeah, with the green thing. Yes, it's like Moroccan flag. Yeah. Green and red.

[00:16:14] TED: Do people still wear them very often these days?

[00:16:17] AZDEAN: the, yes,

[00:16:18] SAM: Especially in the occasions, like in the weddings, during the feast celebrations during Ramadan, Yeah, yeah.

[00:16:26] TED: alright, here's another question. Can you tell us more, Sam might know this, I think he talked a bit in that last episode. Can you tell us more about the funduks

[00:16:36] AZDEAN: our fondos,

[00:16:37] SAM: Yeah,

[00:16:37] TED: is a funduk?

[00:16:38] AZDEAN: okay.

[00:16:39] SAM: Fondok is like a building, a medieval uh, caravanserai building designed 

[00:16:45] AZDEAN: hold on. My apologies. Sam. The, the oc, the name comes similar to oc. We say it in Morocco, say F, which is a hotel, but these are somewhat hotels, [00:17:00] but they're different than hotels. just to give you an idea, the, the first level is different. Than the other levels. But I would like Sam to explain the difference, but I just wanted to give the, where the name came from, please.

[00:17:11] And I do apologize for the interruption.

[00:17:13] SAM: Yeah, it's okay. so, it's a medieval building designed as an urban hostel, to host commercials, travelers, because it's like a meeting point between the caravans to sell their stuff, salt or gold for stuff.

[00:17:28] So the exchange, the exchange of the gods in the past. also as second floor used to be like rooms for the people, the travelers where they can spend the night. And the first floor used to be like a place to tie their animals, especially horses and donkeys in the past.

[00:17:48]

[00:17:49] TED: This is the Nazarenne museum,

[00:17:50] AZDEAN: yes,

[00:17:51] SAM: Nazarenne Museum. Yes.

[00:17:52] TED: this is a museum that people can visit, which looks beautiful. 

[00:17:56] SAM: wood arts. Yes.

[00:17:58] TED: But it's in, uh, Fondouk, the, [00:18:00] the type of building.

[00:18:01] AZDEAN: Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

[00:18:02] TED: I see.

[00:18:03] Yeah, I'd heard the name. I didn't really know what a fundok was. That's good to know. All right. Well, um, let's see, we've got a couple more things here. let's get into some practical questions for sure. Like, so should visitors always try and stay in the old Medina if possible? Or is there any advantages to staying in the new city perhaps?

[00:18:22] AZDEAN: I would say, I would say stay in the old Medina, because you really want to feel the city. And the best way is the old Medina I mean, everything is walking distance. You can do so many things on your own. Just plan ahead of time and be safe.

[00:18:36] SAM: Yes, stay in the old Medina because the riads, which is the, iconic, authenticity of, of Moroccan, accommodation. They are all in the old Medina, and the atmosphere in the old Medina is totally different than Ville the new city. 

[00:18:53] AZDEAN: Yes, and also, you'll be staying at some, 18th century riad, 19th century riad, 17th century riad, and you can't get that [00:19:00] anywhere else. So Fes has some of the most amazing riads in Morocco, and just, when you're in Fes, take advantage of it. you don't have to stay in one Ririad all the time, but you can, you know, make a reservation in a few if you like.

[00:19:12] But also, first, everything they do, it's very exquisite. The attention to detail is just beyond incredible. Uh, like Sam mentioned earlier, when, the food, I mean, our last visit, we stayed at riad Ghita, they have gone Above

[00:19:25] and I believe you say the same, uh, Ted.

[00:19:28] TED: Yeah, we did. I'll

[00:19:29] AZDEAN: I remember the first time when, when we had dinner, I mean, the salad looks like it's, it's dinner. I mean, just those small plates and, and then the food kept coming and coming and coming. And I was like, wow, the hospitality is just, it's amazing. So

[00:19:46] TED: that was really neat. That was a highlight, just being there. Because, you know, you're into the medina and the alleys and the labyrinth and all that. And I mean, it's fun. It can be a little, it can be a little claustrophobic because it's quite dark, even in the middle of the day, right? And [00:20:00] the sun doesn't get quite down there and all the rest.

[00:20:02] And then, but you get back to one of your riads and a lot of them would be like this, but this place was incredible. It's beautiful. There's just such a sanctuary. It's quiet, it's safe, it's, peaceful and you get up on the roof. I remember that we, we kind of drove in here initially.

[00:20:18] here's a good thing to know, though, because, you can't drive, you rarely drive right up to the door of a riad, right? You have to walk, so it's good when, well, one great advantage, of course, of going with you guys anyways on your tours is that you'll always put people in riads, if at all possible.

[00:20:35] It's not going to be a big group tour that has to stay in a hotel. You'll stay in a riad. So you'll make sure that the transport gets you as close as possible. I remember we would hang out in the mornings or the late afternoon on the rooftop patio

[00:20:48] AZDEAN: Yes, yeah,

[00:20:50] TED: Looking out over the medina is really cool and like you hear all the hustle and bustle and then everything The smells and so on down below, but we're up in our little cloud above the medina. [00:21:00] It's really 

[00:21:00] AZDEAN: Yeah, it is. It's really neat. And we did the same thing. I mean, the dinner, we had it at the terrace. It was just incredible experience. Then we got to know the staff, you know, the ones that not on vacation because some day they go on vacation during the summertime. So they were super nice to us. We got to know the maids.

[00:21:18] We got to know the people in the kitchen because we did a cooking class. It was just, we felt like, you know, we are part of their family and it was just, uh, really, really, really neat. Yeah.

[00:21:30] TED: Yeah. I'll try to pull up some pictures here It's the inside is beautiful too. 

[00:21:33] AZDEAN: The riad is not big, most riads are not really big. But it's very personal experience. It's very intimate experience. And I remember, the guys would wait for us until we come back, from outside, they're still up waiting for us and say, Hey, can we serve you dinner now?

[00:21:49] And then they'll ask us in the morning. I mean, we, there were 10 of us in the tour and they'll ask us, what time would you like your breakfast to be served? So for example, I would say nine [00:22:00] 30, Sam would say eight o'clock. So each one of us will have his own or her own breakfast. Made to their specification.

[00:22:07] They don't serve one breakfast all at one time. because we are tired. I mean, we're very tired traveling and doing all kind of stuff, so. And that was kind of really unique and neat. So if somebody's early, morning person, they want to have their breakfast at 7. 30, they can. They can go, you know, just relax and do whatever they want to do.

[00:22:26] until everybody finishes, then we can start the tour. So we really enjoyed it and we're very grateful. 

[00:22:32] TED: Yeah, it's a beautiful place to stay. All right. Well, let's see here. What else we got?

[00:22:36] Um, yeah, that's the time. A couple more minutes. Oh, this is a good question. should tourists consider flying into Morocco directly into Fez? There's an international airport. Is that worth considering? How big is it? Do you ever start any of your tours there?

[00:22:51] AZDEAN: That's a really good question. yes, we do recommend, to fly to Fes if they are coming from Europe, and we can start the tour in Fes. [00:23:00]

[00:23:00] SAM: Yeah, there is, international flights because first airports, I think, is the fourth or fifth largest airports in Morocco the airport is outside old Medina, by the way, it's like 25 minutes drive from the old Medina.

[00:23:13] And there is, low cost flights and international flights as well 

[00:23:17] TED: so it is possible from the United States to fly there?

[00:23:20] SAM: Not right now, but there will be, international flights from U. S. first, but It will be in the future because they extended airport.

[00:23:27] TED: So people fly often between Marrakech and Fez once you're in the country or maybe vice versa? to save some time because you can see from the map, like to go from Fez.

[00:23:37] Basically, the fastest way is the expressway, right? All the way down through here to Marrakech. And that's five or six hours or something. So to drive so much faster to fly. Do a lot of people do that?

[00:23:47]

[00:23:48] SAM: Yeah. uh, starting from January, 2024, there is a new company, that The domestic or internal flights Morocco, it's Ryanair,

[00:23:58] TED: Oh, right there. Okay.

[00:23:59] SAM: yeah, [00:24:00] Ryanair, yes. And there is many lines between big cities, between Marrakech Fez, between Marrakech Tangier, Casablanca, where is that Errachidia, for example, and so on and so forth.

[00:24:12] TED: could people, um, If they incorporate it into their itinerary and have the time then, can someone still request that, you know, say, I, I would be happy to fly and that's not a group tour, but you know, a private tour or a family or something.

[00:24:26] We'd rather fly from Fez straight to Marrakech.

[00:24:29] AZDEAN: A hundred percent. Yes. First Marrakech, first Errachidia. and we can have, a different car in them, either in Marrakech or in Errachidia . Or where is it? You know, so, yeah. if it's private, can do it. It's very easy because there is always a driver assigned the, our customers, for example. And they can take care of the luggage and they can fly it from airport to another. So the driver will take care of the luggage and just can take the carry on, at the airport.

[00:24:56] SAM: maybe the, in the future, we'll, if something changed [00:25:00] with the low cost, for example, we will configure something out um, 

[00:25:04] TED: yeah. It sounds like it's evolving and it kind of comes back more broadly. You know, it was the, the world cup comes and other big events. Like there's going to be a lot more of that infrastructure and things set up.

[00:25:14] AZDEAN: Yeah, definitely.

[00:25:16] TED: the last question I have here is about the climate or essentially what to wear and what is the climate like in Fez?

[00:25:23] What is the best time of year to visit?

[00:25:26] AZDEAN: Oh, summertime is very hot. it's very, very hot. I did not really know that the temperature can get that hot in Fes, but it gets really, really hot. The best time visit is, springtime, March, April, May, um, September, October, November, uh, first weeks of December. 

[00:25:45] TED: does it get very cold there in the winter?

[00:25:47] AZDEAN: it does. Yeah, because of the mountains, yeah. Yes. Yeah, yes.

[00:25:51] SAM: close to the snowy mountains, snow picks of the middle atlas. And it's, it's very, very cold during winter, but it's not for a [00:26:00] long time. For example, it could be like for a month or month half. That's it. Yeah. But I just visited during, as, as Tim said, spring because.

[00:26:11] Summary is just because first it's just inside like if you're getting inside the hall.

[00:26:17] TED: Yeah.

[00:26:17] SAM: it's also it's it's so hot during the summer. Yeah.

[00:26:21] TED: Do you get any air conditioning?

[00:26:23] AZDEAN: Yeah, there's air conditioning. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yes. I mean,

[00:26:27] SAM: the car, there is in the accommodations. Yeah. Restaurants.

[00:26:30] AZDEAN: it's just walking, you know, it's, uh, you know, it's a, it's a hilly city. There's a lot of walking, especially when you're doing the tour. when we did the cooking class, we did it, around 11 AM. I think we got back to the Riyadh maybe around 1230, but I think I was wearing similar t shirt to this one and it looked really soaked up.

[00:26:49] I didn't feel that I was sweating, but it looked really wet. 

[00:26:53] SAM: No, working to refresh, it's very hard during summer.

[00:26:56] TED: Well, it's good to know. Yeah. If people, make an increase [00:27:00] and they want to know the best time, does that make it busier in the spring in terms of tours in the spring or fall? What's like, what's the busiest time for tourists?

[00:27:07] SAM: March, April, May, and September, October and November. Yes.

[00:27:16] and of course, the big season is the end of the year as

[00:27:18] AZDEAN: yeah, yeah,

[00:27:20] TED: around the holidays.

[00:27:21] AZDEAN: yes. Yeah, Christmas, New Year's, yeah.

[00:27:23] SAM: Christmas, yeah.

[00:27:24] TED: So I guess the answer is just to book as far ahead as you can to have the best selection.

[00:27:30] AZDEAN: Yes, I would say especially for the end of the year, Christmas, the holidays. because people, they think, oh, it's a Muslim country. No, there's a Muslim, it is a Muslim country, but there's a lot of celebrations at the end of the year. New Year, New Year's celebration is big for Moroccans everywhere.

[00:27:45] And I remember this, you know, even being as a kid. so it's no different if you're trying to go at that time, you know, give yourself an average of six months to nine months. Uh, that way you get, really, really good rates. And also you have choices because [00:28:00] sometimes you wait too long. They don't have any single rooms or double rooms.

[00:28:03] They have suites and suites can cost, you know, You know, three times, so yeah, yeah, just plan ahead and save a little bit more. Yeah,

[00:28:11] TED: Sure. Okay. Well, this has been good. It's been really nice to reminisce and get back to Fez,

[00:28:17] AZDEAN: uh,

[00:28:17] TED: inspire people to go. It's different. it really, part of this geography, you know, as I say, the, the hills, the size and the scale of the Medina. Um, the culture and the food, like it, it feels different.

[00:28:28] It's a different experience. So I really hope people get the chance to experience it.

[00:28:32] AZDEAN: absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:28:33] TED: So thanks guys. We've got our next, regular podcast episode will be an excerpt of the walking tour that you guys did when you were there, which I know is quite long. That may end up being two or three parts, but at least we'll have one of those parts in our next episode. 

[00:28:47] AZDEAN: Absolutely. 

[00:28:48] TED: really get to hear you guys walking around on the streets.

[00:28:50] You're right there in the That's pretty cool.

[00:28:52] AZDEAN: Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. 

[00:28:54] SAM: yeah.

[00:28:55] AZDEAN: And also, um, by the way, Ted, thank you so much. one episodes, that [00:29:00] it's done a little bit different than I really, really enjoyed it is the, the Gnawa music, you have not listened to it, it's a beautiful, beautiful episode.

[00:29:08] Then, at the end, the music that you hear, it's us. you can hear Sam talking. You can hear Imran talking as well. And Imran, he was with me. I was holding him and doing the interview. So when, when Muhammad said, I've been doing this since I was eight years old, he's like, Oh, I'm eight.

[00:29:23] TED: Yeah, 

[00:29:23] AZDEAN: but it's, it's so funny. but the music, the way that you put everything together, it just came out. incredible. I loved it. I loved it. So,

[00:29:31] TED: Yeah, it's a fun episode. It's nice to get something a little different when I, I purposely let the music play for a bit longer,

[00:29:37] AZDEAN: yes, yes. It was, it was,

[00:29:38] TED: I 

[00:29:39] AZDEAN: it was really great. Yeah.

[00:29:40] SAM: I love the music, yeah.

[00:29:42] TED: Oh, so definitely, you know, people, uh, head to our website. You can find the podcast in any of the apps.

[00:29:47] It's all the episodes are there. If you go to the website and the links there, the top destinations, morocco. com slash podcast, you can easily sort through it's a bit more user friendly to go through all those past episodes and choose the ones that are [00:30:00] interesting and each episode has its own page. You get links and other resources each one.

[00:30:04] So lots of great information there. And of course about, your tours and the itineraries and things that you put together. So it's all there on the site.

[00:30:12] AZDEAN: Yes, you can see that we have really good selection of private tours that are pre made. Then also we have a small group tour section, and those tours, small group tours, it's going to be between eight people to 12 people, no more. And also they are guaranteed departure, which means if there's two people that are booking, those two people will go, For that tour the minimum two people they can go for the tour it becomes really like a private term more than a small group tour, the reason why we're having the small group tours because we want to keep The accommodations in Riyadh.

[00:30:45] So we want, still want you to feel that, you know, it's very intimate experience. It's very unique experience. It's a beautiful experience. So that's, that's what I would recommend in terms of value. The value is really in the small group tours. you'll save an average [00:31:00] between 900 per person to about 1, 200 per person.

[00:31:04] So, I highly recommend looking into those. and again, you can reach us, set up an appointment. We're here to answer any questions for you, me and Sam, and the rest of the team. And thank you so much. Thank you.

[00:31:15] TED: All right. Thanks guys. We'll see you see you next

[00:31:17] SAM: much. I appreciate it. 

[00:31:19] TED: Cheers. 

[00:31:19] SAM: Thank you. Azdean. Thank you.