Azdean and his local Fes guide extraordinaire, Moulay Hafid Alami, conclude their tour of the old city with a visit to the pottery and ceramic studio, "Mosaique et Poterie de Fes."
Located just to the east of the medina, this is more than a simple shop selling their beautiful craftwork (and there is a lot of it!). When you arrive, you get a guided tour of the facility, starting with handling the raw clay itself, learning how it's shaped, dried and fired, then glazed and decorated.
In our episode today, Azdean is taking this very tour, and you'll hear all the explanations, combined with the sounds of patting down clay, opening the kiln door, chiseling delicate vases and more.
Listen in to learn why Fes is such an important and influential artistic centre, not just to Morocco, but worldwide. We visit the kiln and learn about the firing process, the particular wood used, and a special natural ingredient added to the kiln.
Zalish mosaic tiles, famous around the world, are produced right here in this studio. Zalish is the root of the Portuguese word "Azulejo," the famous blue tiles, meaning "polished stone" in Arabic.
We learn more about funduqs (such as the converted Nejjarine Museum), the unique former accommodation for traders in Fes, and then we end the tour with a quick stop back in the medina, at the al-Karouyin University, the world's oldest.
You can view this special Google Map to find out the exact location of all our stops in Parts 1 and 2 of the Fes tour.
And don't forget, all our episodes have transcripts, which can help to make sense of some of the accents and place names. Apple users with the latest update should see the transcript on their phones. Or, you can visit the episode page below to follow along with the .pdf file:
Fes Walking Tour Part 2: Visiting the Famous Fes Pottery Studio
Thank you for joining us during this past month of celebrating the magical city of Fes, Morocco. As Azdean says, if there is one place in the country you should visit, it's right here, and we hope this series has given you inspiration and momentum to book your trip!
Music credits:
Mik
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00:00 - Welcome to the Art School of Ceramics and Pottery
01:04 - Discovering the Unique Gray Clay of Fes
02:08 - The Journey of Becoming a Master Craftsman
02:57 - Exploring the Clay Preparation Process
06:38 - Witnessing the Art of Pottery Making
10:17 - Understanding the Firing and Glazing Process
11:54 - The World of Mosaic and Zalish
13:01 - The Art of Fes Engraved Pottery
13:38 - The Art of Chiseling: A Master's Patience
14:48 - Berber Silver: Tradition Meets Craftsmanship
16:03 - Cultural Heritage: The Jewish Influence in Moroccan Art
17:28 - Ensuring Authenticity: The Fight Against Imitations
23:55 - Global Reach: Moroccan Artwork on the World Stage
25:56 - (Transition) The Oldest University in the World: A Legacy of Learning
Fes Walking Tour Part 2: Visiting the Famous Fes Pottery Studio & al-Karouyin University
Moulay Hafid Alami: Okay, so we go the Art School of Ceramics and Pottery. It's a big school, and the clay in Fes, in this place is not the red clay you find all over Morocco. It's a gray, clay.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Gray.
Moulay Hafid Alami: And the gray clay, it's advantage, it's lead free, no lead inside. That's what makes this pottery alimentary.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Okay. So just to give the audience a little bit of information, the difference between this clay found here in the Fes region is different than the rest of it in Morocco because most of it in Morocco, it's red. And the red here is dark gray or is it...?
Moulay Hafid Alami: You will see, you will see soon It's a, uh, both we have, depending on the place.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Okay.
Moulay Hafid Alami: Yes. This is the school, you're going to see. There are many schools, but this is the one I like because they give good explanations and treat people well.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: This is one of the best ones, and we're very grateful. to be here today and get a tour. [00:01:00]
Clay shop guide: So, we will start by this way. You will see different stages of pottery and mosaic.
Okay. You can take pictures, they can be expressions, no problem. Please.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Thank you, thank you.
Clay shop guide: Here, we are forming artisans.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Oh, okay.
Clay shop guide: Yeah.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Okay, so basically people will come here to learn the art of,
Clay shop guide: to be a professional craftspeople.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Okay, so this is where they learn the craftsmanship, the details, the techniques and everything that they need to know to become
Clay shop guide: Master craftsman.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Oh, wow.
Clay shop guide: And they can stay here, practicum, for five to six years to have a license of master craftsman.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Wow. So they need to stay five to six years?
Clay shop guide: Yeah. To be professional.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: I can get a master degree! But this is the equivalent of getting a master degree.
Clay shop guide: Like this, you can just show him any text and picture and they can do it organically.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: So that's how they become professional and they can have their own shop. Oh my [00:02:00] God, this is just amazing. Wow. Okay. So this is the clay.
Clay shop guide: Yeah. This clay, you don't find everywhere in the country, just in Fes.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: In Fes. This is, okay.
Clay shop guide: We call gray clay of Fes.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Say that again?
Clay shop guide: Gray, gray clay of Fes.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Gray clay of Fes.
Clay shop guide: Because it exists only in Fes.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: I'm gonna touch it.
Clay shop guide: In Morocco, you'll find pottery, but you find it with the red clay. And the difference between gray clay and red clay, lead glaze.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Lead.
Clay shop guide: Lead glaze, yeah.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Glaze. So there's no lead in this clay?
Clay shop guide: Yeah.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Can you tell us the bad or the side effects or negatives about lead? Because I want to tell a story afterwards. Please.
Clay shop guide: So, you need to know why they add lead on the pottery.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Yes.
Clay shop guide: And that's only in the red clay pottery.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Okay.
Clay shop guide: Red clay, when they bake it in the oven, they stay red.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: They stay red.
Clay shop guide: When they want to paint it, the dye doesn't stick directly on the red clay because [00:03:00] it's enriched by salt.
So to have the white color to paint it on, you need to drop it in lead glaze to have the white color to paint it on. And lead is poison. That's why a red clay pottery, maybe if you do your attention when you are driving by van, you can see in the roadside in the gray clay. Now, even in the city, just in big places. So, now, when they break it like this, like stones, they cut it to small pieces, they drop it in basin with the water for a week.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Okay, so can I, can I break some of it?
Clay shop guide: Yeah, of course.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Okay. It's...
Clay shop guide: it's hard clay, yeah?
Azdean Elmoustaquim: This is from my childhood, back in farming! In the Atlas Mountains. Okay, so the clay is not really like a rock solid, but it's just a little bit hard and you chip it, it's easy to manage.
Clay shop guide: Yeah.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: And you said you cut it into small pieces, and then what do you do when you cut it into small pieces?
Clay shop guide: You drop it in water for a [00:04:00] week.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: For one week?
Clay shop guide: Yeah.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Oh, wow.
Clay shop guide: Then, after one week, somebody, they go inside.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: They go inside?
Clay shop guide: They mix it with the peach.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Oh, wow. And they make sure that it's all mixed in.
Clay shop guide: Yeah. After mix them inside, they take them outside. They cover them with some plastic.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: I see.
Clay shop guide: To absorb a little bit.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: The moist.
Clay shop guide: To dry a little bit, yeah. Then, when they want to use it, They put it in floor. Mm-Hmm. . They work on with the feet, to remove the air bubble from the clay.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: The air bubbles, they extract the air bubbles.
Clay shop guide: Yeah. Then he put little piece of clay. I see. It's a kneading in this way, that same way to make bread. To be sure no bubble air, no little stone on the clay, and the same time to be very soft or easy to shape it.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Okay, so it's easier to manipulate the clay to whatever shape.
Clay shop guide: They prepare a little block of clay, a little piece of clay. Okay. Little stone, take them off.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Oh, wow. And how long does this process take?
[00:05:00]
Clay shop guide: It's one day.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: One day.
Clay shop guide: One day. Even if he make only one piece, he need to stay here for one day.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Oh, wow.
Clay shop guide: I will show, I will tell you why. When they shape it in the morning, you need to leave it in sun for drying.
Afternoon, you need to put them again on the wheel to final them, to give the right shape of the stuff. Then they put them in air drying.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Air drying.
Clay shop guide: Not in sun. Why? These clays are rich by minerals. There is iron and manganesium in the clay. The clay is very smooth. So when you put it inside, they dry very quick from outside, but they stay humid from inside.
When you bake it, they crack. You need to dry slow in air, even when they bake it in the camp. To bake it, it's one day, but to cool down, it's one week.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Oh, wow.
Clay shop guide: Because they close the doors, of clay, and it was for one week.
Clay shop guide: Now let's see the master potter. He will show us how they're making the tagine dish, Berber couscous plates and other stuff.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Okay.
So this is the master [00:06:00] potter?
Clay shop guide: Yeah. So Mr. Monseif. That's a potter learning from father to son, you see, family job, he will show us how they make tagine dish.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Tagine, okay.
Clay shop guide: Yeah, so when he make the tagine bowl look the way, where they get the measurements of the bowl to make the cover exactly in the same size, just by eye.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: By eye.
Clay shop guide: Yeah. the advantage of the craftspeople who learn the job from father to son. He born in clay, he grew up in clay, family job.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Yes, yeah.
Oh wow. That's very smooth. Oh my goodness.
Clay shop guide: You see it's working with the feet and the hand.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: The feet and the hand, yes. It's a combination.
Clay shop guide: Yeah.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: So how long it took Mr. Monsef to be able to do this? We're seeing the creation of a traditional Moroccan tagine being made in front of us. I mean, look at-
Clay shop guide: Just by eye, you need to get very close to perfect.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Fit and finish.
Look at the, I [00:07:00] mean there's no measurement, everything is just,
Clay shop guide: Just by eye.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: By eye and touch. I mean, wow, this is just...
Clay shop guide: And anything you ask him, he can do it. Now he's going to make a Berber couscous plate.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Berber couscous plate.
Clay shop guide: We know in Morocco we use couscous plates, yes. But there is Arabic couscous plates with a plain edge. And there is a Berber couscous plate that has a design, a pinch in the edge. He will do it, he will show us. If you see it when it's finished, you think it's made by a mold.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Yes, that's exactly right. There's no mold being used. Everything is from scratch and everything is by hand and the technique, the design. It is a Berber design all put together.
Clay shop guide: Exact size, perfect.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Oh my God, this is just amazing. So Mr. Monsif, how long it took him to be able to do what he's doing in front of us live?
Clay shop guide: So now it's around 20 to 23 years in the job. He looks very young.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: He does look very young. [00:08:00]
Clay shop guide: He's the father of three kids.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Oh my goodness!
Clay shop guide: You know the Berber, the Berber families. Maybe you are Berber too.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Yes.
Clay shop guide: We get married very young. Over 20 years, we call, it's coming from, transformed from kids to men. He needs to build his family and his house.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: So, what Mr. Monsef is making for us right now,
Clay shop guide: A candlestick, candleholder.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Candleholder, which is called "heska." Which is very important in the Berber tradition.
Clay shop guide: So now those items, those items normally need to be in sun for two hours and a half to three hours for hard drying. In the afternoon he will go to have lunch and come back afternoon to put them again on the wheel to final them, to get the right shape of the stuff.
Then they will put them, drying in air drying, very slow in shade. Then they bake them in the kiln. So, this material, when they bake it, you know it's rich by minerals. Yes. Change to beige. From Greek to beige color.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: To beige color.
Clay shop guide: Or we can see bisque firing. [00:09:00]
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Bisque firing.
Clay shop guide: Yeah. Bisque that mean terracotta. First baking.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: First Baking.
Clay shop guide: After receive them batch, we need to send them to be painted and glazed. Then we will bake them again.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: So just to give the audience, I'm gonna go back to heska, which is the, the candle holder.
Yeah. We place the candle, then light it, and it's just, it's incredible. So made with love from Fes.
Clay shop guide: And now we pass to next step, which is the firing step, which is the kiln, where the bake it, please.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: So we're walking towards where the oven is.
Clay shop guide: Yeah. So, this oven, they burn with cedar wood, or any kind of wood. We've seen Rif and Atlas, it loves cedar, so that's why we use cedar wood. We have enough. And this fuel. You know what is this? That's left over when they press olive oil. Olive residue.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Oh, [00:10:00] olive oil residue, yeah.
Clay shop guide: Beads and skins and all the rest, after pressing olive oil. So, first, baking down. Put them gray, turns to beige. We send them to be painted, glazed, then rebake them again. In the moment of second baking, we need to glaze. We use those little stickers, you see, which we use between the plates,
Azdean Elmoustaquim: I see, to separate.
Clay shop guide: See, like this doesn't stick together with glaze.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Okay.
Clay shop guide: That's why in every large bowls, you'll find three marks on.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Oh, you see, find three marks on the, the,
Clay shop guide: It's something to know it's handmade.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Yes. Now, the question that I have, you mentioned a few times, that that dark gray color changes into beige, which is right here. So, this is what we see. The change of the color, which is just -
Clay shop guide: Okay, I will tell you why it changed from gray to beige.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Okay.
Clay shop guide: This clay, they got this from very deep grounds. It's enriched by minerals. There is iron and manganesium. So the iron with high temperature give this color.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Color, the iron. Wow. [00:11:00] We're getting a lot of education!
Clay shop guide: So we make also the square tiles. Oh. You know, our specialty here, we make pottery and square tiles, mosaic.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Mosaic, Zalish.
Clay shop guide: Zalish, yes. Now in all the world they know what means Zalish.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: That's right.
Clay shop guide: Even in, uh, in some countries in South America. Uh huh. they say Azulejo.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Yeah.
Clay shop guide: Like in Brazil, in Portugal, in some countries they say Azulejo.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Azulejo.
Clay shop guide: But, uh, for them, the meaning, Azulejo, the meaning, it's tiles. But they don't know exactly the Zalish as when they come in Morocco, then they have the right information from tile to Zalish. So from tiles, we make Zalish. Okay. So they can be cut to small pieces.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: This big piece can be cut into so many small pieces and it can be fitted in different shapes
Clay shop guide: And they build the designs with. We will see the stage inside.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Oh, wow.
Clay shop guide: So now let's see the next step.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: So we're moving from stage to stage.
Yeah. This is just, wow.
Clay shop guide: [00:12:00] So, always air drying.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Everything here is going to be air dried.
Clay shop guide: Over there, it's a special technique. So here, there is a vase of plain colors.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Okay, natural colors.
Clay shop guide: Yeah, natural colors. Plain ones like this. I see. He stenciled the design on, and he chips away the glaze and the color to engrave a design on.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Okay. So the chisel that we've been hearing all over the interview, this is what it's coming from, and basically you take whatever shape of pottery, and they work on it, they chip, until they create specific design.
Clay shop guide: We call it "Fes engraved."
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Fes engraved.
Clay shop guide: Yeah.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Okay.
Clay shop guide: So let's be very close.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: This is very [00:13:00] impressive.
Clay shop guide: Something very important in this job, a lot of people, they ask, they ask how many time it take him a vase, to chisel, to make, when it's finished. Those kind of vases, they take over two months just for chiseling.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Oh, wow.
Clay shop guide: You know why? If he hammer, if he hammer the whole day on, he hits the vase, maybe he explodes, he loses. If he want to work the whole day, he need to change the piece, he take another vase. And put this one to be cold. Because if he hammered the whole day, he hit the clay, maybe he lose it.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: So because of the vibration.
Clay shop guide: Exactly, we need large sizes like this.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: So he really has to be very careful because the large size,
Clay shop guide: And each half hour, he needs to stop and needs to move to sharpen the hammer. The hammer is very sharp. That same material we use to cut the tiles to make the mosaic. It need to be very sharp. So, time to time he need to sharpen his hammer. It take around 30 minutes between the first and the second sharpening.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Oh, this is incredible.
Clay shop guide: So now we will be inside to see where they add the decoration [00:14:00] on the pottery by wire of Berber silver.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Okay.
Clay shop guide: So Berber style, we call it.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Before we, . I mean this, this work is just beyond incredible.
These guys are just masters of what they are doing, and, we're really grateful to witness it and to see it.
Clay shop guide: On the pottery by wire. What we call Berber silver, which is a mix of brass, white metal, and silver.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: I see.
Clay shop guide: So, the pure silver you know, is 925.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Yeah.
Clay shop guide: That we call silver of 725, which a valuable also material, but we prefer Berber silver than pure silver for this work. Exactly to put it on dishes, how can we use it? Because pure silver, if you use it, when you wet it with the water, it can be black, you know, to polish it. This no, don't be black. Just with soap and water, you can clean it at home.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: It's for commercial use.
Clay shop guide: Yeah. And that's what you say, it's tea set for tea.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Tea set. Yeah.
Clay shop guide: Sugar box. Tea cups, how you say.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Tea cup. [00:15:00] The attention to detail is just beyond incredible.
Clay shop guide: Yeah.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: And it's done small pieces by small pieces by small pieces.
How much time does it take?
Clay shop guide: It take a time to make, yes. But, uh, just you need, uh, to now the origin of this art or this job.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Mm-Hmm .
Clay shop guide: The Berbers, they learn their art from the Jewish.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: From the Jewish. Okay.
Clay shop guide: This is Jewish art. If you see well, you see a lot of Jewish items we have here, like Jewish cup, with the j Hebrew writing.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Okay.
Clay shop guide: So, you know, here in Fes we have big Mellah. It means Jewish city. That's where is the King's Palace. The big jewelry market of the city is there. And the owners, they've been, all of them Jewish.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Yeah.
Clay shop guide: But there was some masters, especially in Jewish items, like Kedush Ka'ap, Mizuzah, Hanukiah, Minora, Cedar plates. And this guy, he was learning in Millah with the Jewish. And he came to do those items here. You know, the Jewish, when they come in Marrakech, they won't buy Jewish items. They come to Millah of Fes, normally.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: [00:16:00] Yes.
Clay shop guide: You'll find those items in Fes.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: It's incredible.
Clay shop guide: Mezuzah, do you know? Everybody know Mezuzah?
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Mezuzah, yes.
Clay shop guide: Mezuzah for the Jewish. They hung it in the back of the door. To bless the house and family. The Muslim, we use Khamsa.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Khamsa, yes.
Clay shop guide: "Hand of Fatima."
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Yeah, Hand of Fatima. This is incredible. So -
Clay shop guide: Sometimes, you see, they add the pieces of camel bone. The white is camel bone. With some natural stones, yeah.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Okay.
Clay shop guide: So in other places, you know, uh, they use the plastic, but here we use the real camel bone.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Yeah. Okay.
Clay shop guide: And all the material we use in this co op, because you know, when you buy from the street, small stores, a lot of tourist area, always you'll find small pieces, uh, the cheap imitations. The most of them, they use in Chinese production because now, you know, the Chinese, they make a lot of production, copy production.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: But here's the question that I have. If somebody's coming, can they buy straight from you, directly from [00:17:00] you? They can?
Clay shop guide: Here we are, we are factory.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Uh huh.
Clay shop guide: At the same time, in second floor, all the work we make, it's exposed in the exhibition.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Oh, okay, so we definitely need to go upstairs.
Clay shop guide: That's only the place when you come by, anything you buy, it's with a guarantee.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: With guarantee, okay.
Clay shop guide: But in a market, you can buy, yes. So, okay. But when you ask him guarantee, he doesn't give you guarantee, because you know, he's, he's selling you the imitation, not the real, not the real quality.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Okay. So this is really important. Just to elaborate, so when you buy stuff from the market, it looks the exact same way, but the quality may not be the same and the quality cannot be guaranteed by the seller to you.
So when you come here, everything is guaranteed. Everything is, is not fake. It's the real deal. And they have a second shop where people can come. They see how everything is made and they can buy anything they want to buy upstairs. Anything can be custom made to them, from A to Z, any shape, any design.
Clay shop guide: For example, like this production here, there is people who [00:18:00] do it in a tin wire, not the real ones, just, you know, it's very cheap. And there is kids following the tourist. So when they say, they ask him, only 5 dollars or 5 euros, they prefer to buy it because it's very cheap. But when you go to the manufacturer, they find it expensive.
They ask, "Why? How in the streets cheaper than the factory."
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Yes.
Clay shop guide: But you don't know that's China's production. This is the real quality. Yeah, so I've been in Paris. I want to buy a souvenir. You know, all, most of the tourists go into Paris, they want to buy Tour Eiffel.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Of course, yes, Eiffel Tower.
Clay shop guide: Yeah. In the stores it costs between hundred twenty, hundred and thirty Euros.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Euros.
Clay shop guide: But if you go in the street, to the Tour Eiffel area, you'll find the Africans selling it for 2, 4, 5 Euros. But there is a lot of people who go on trips every year, so they know this problem of imitations.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Yes, yes. . So, okay, let's go to the other side.
Clay shop guide: Okay, please.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Thank you. I do have a lot, [00:19:00] tons and tons of questions. Oh my God, this is unbelievable.
Clay shop guide: Salaam alaykum!
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Salaam alaykum.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Before we go, I, I just, yes, I want you, if you could, tell the audience how important this, to the Fes culture. To the Moroccan culture and also when we did the site visit in Hassan II Mosque in Casablanca, we've seen a lot of things have been made, especially from Fes. Can you elaborate?
Clay shop guide: Just you need to know when you talk to Fes, in Morocco, you talk to artwork area or artwork center. In Fes, we don't have a lot of industry.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Yes.
Clay shop guide: Fes, we have handicrafts.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Yes.
Clay shop guide: Art city not is not only in Morocco, but in Africa.
Clay shop guide: You've been in the old city or not yet?
Azdean Elmoustaquim: We have.
Clay shop guide: You will go. Okay.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Yeah, we'll go.
Clay shop guide: You will visit the Funduqs?
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Yes.
Clay shop guide: You know what the meaning of Funduqs in Arabic, it means hotel.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Funduq, [00:20:00] yeah.
Clay shop guide: This a hotel yeah, in first floor, that exists more in Fes city. That's for animals. Cause the Africans, you want traveling with the camels and horses. And then you come to a place to buy handicraft things to bring it back to say that it's real Africa.
And in this funduq, that's especially for the Africans. In first floor that's place where they put the animals, but in second floor, there is place for merchandise and room for sleeping.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: I see.
Clay shop guide: You will visit the funduqs now. It's coming to be now, uh, changing, but there is some that's important to visit them.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: I do remember last time.
Clay shop guide: Yeah. And there is some who are transferred into a museum because for the architecture, you know Fes, Fes is the center of artwork, culture, religious. So how we say: what you look for in Fes, you'll find.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Yes. [00:21:00] And again, that's the reason why Fes is a really, really, really important stop for anybody traveling to Morocco.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: And the question that I also have, I know this takes a lot of time to master this craft. Are we seeing change in a way that we're losing the people wanting to do this, versus if you compare this craftsmanship today to 30 years from now, to 50 years from now, is it going down? Is it challenging or is it steady?
Clay shop guide: We go now, exactly in Fes, maybe it's losing those kind of artwork in some cities. Anyway, the more important cities in Morocco for artwork, that's Fes. After Fes, it's Marrakech.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Marrakech, yeah.
Clay shop guide: Yeah, that's if you will go to the books and look the story of Fes city. Or maybe you will see just some pictures, which is very antique picture, just old people making weddings, or some, you say our Jalabas, traditional clothes. [00:22:00] There is some bells, which is brooded with a wire of gold. You see they use it for marriage and all that. That exists only in Fes. You don't find them in other place. And here, how you see, it learning from father to son. Always the first case of the family need to keep the job of his father.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Yeah, okay.
Clay shop guide: And the most of the people here, it's happening like, it's like the young boy here, his father is here, same job.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Oh, wow.
Clay shop guide: So the most of them, they work with his father. Gentleman, the one who sold you the silver, it's his father too.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Oh, wow.
Clay shop guide: Yeah. It happened like this in Fes, and that's why the government, they are pushing the big manufacturers to transform to co op. To transform from simple factory to co op. You have advantage. So, we can keep the learning and at the same time, the government, they got possibilities for you to do export to outside of Morocco. But they push you to teach the kids. So, you have advantage and they get on advantage.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: [00:23:00] Yeah, so the government pushes to help this and help you. For example, now, these are being shipped to Australia, I see some packages, U. S., U. S. A., U. S. A. So U. S. is a big market.
Clay shop guide: Most of to the U. S. A., you know why? Now, the first client of artwork in Morocco is the Americans.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Yes.
Clay shop guide: Why? Every country with the shipping, they pay taxes and they pay VAT, but to America is duty free. Doesn't exist, that's mean the two countries are open together for artworks.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Free trade, yes.
Clay shop guide: Yeah. No, no free shipping. Duty free. Yeah. Free charge. .
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Now, the question that I do have for you, if you would, we've seen a lot of products being shipped overseas. How long normally does it take for a product to be shipped, let's say to New Zealand?
Clay shop guide: To New Zealand, you take two weeks.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Two weeks.
Clay shop guide: Every shipping doesn't take more than two weeks.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Okay. The reason I am saying this is because a lot of people, some of our customers when they come in, they buy stuff, we need to [00:24:00] let them know, "Hey, this will take you two weeks to be shipped." Instead of just them not knowing.
Clay shop guide: Yeah.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Okay.
Thank you.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: So basically the second floor is where people can come really and buy their own stuff and have it shipped to them. Just the way that we have witnessed here. Thank you.
Clay shop guide: We have even another floor.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Upstairs.
Clay shop guide: Yeah, upstairs. More choice.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Okay. I mean, this has been incredible education. I mean, for me, and I know been the same for the team. this is amazing. I'm looking around and I see a lot of Jewish symbols, so the Jewish culture and history is definitely being preserved here in Fes. And rightfully so, because this is definitely, uh, Fes, I've said it time and again, is the center, for Morocco. If you have one day to spend in Morocco, come to Fes. If you have, you know, more than days spend it in Fes. Give Fes the time that it really deserves. Thank you. Thank you, thank you.
Moulay Hafid Alami: Yalla.
Moulay Hafid Alami: We are, this is the main entrance to the University El Karouyin from 859. Built by Fatima al-Fihri, a lady all the way from Tunisia, from the Kairouan city. That's why the university is named Karaoui. It's a mosque, but they still give lectures here, within the interval of the prayers, I mean from 8 to 12, and from 2 to 4, they're forming ulamas.
Ulamas, okay, Ulamas are schooling to study the Koran.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Okay.
Moulay Hafid Alami: So, why they still give lectures here but only for one discipline? It's a university, but only for one discipline: Islamic theology. Why they give still extras here? Just to preserve the glorious and the famous University. This is a worldwide famous university, the oldest in the world. It's 859. After this, you have Al Azhar in Egypt, Al Azhar was built in 970. Then you have Parma in Italy, [00:26:00] Bologna, Parma. And what else? Sorbonne in France, Oxford is number, I think, 1211, okay?
There are many scholars, not only from Morocco, from Indonesia, from Malaysia, from all over Islamic world. Being taught: 270 students. Exactly 271 are studying here now. And, these students, to be accepted here, you should have what we call a baccalaureate certificate. And you should know the whole Koran by heart.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Oh. Okay. So basically you must memorize the whole Koran.
Moulay Hafid Alami: Koran, yeah.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: To be admitted here. Plus you have to have a baccalaureate degree, which is equivalent of finishing high school.
Moulay Hafid Alami: Yes. So. They give lectures always between prayers. These are prayers at four o'clock in the morning, one at 1:30. So lecture from 8 to 12, and then from 2 to 4 they're on prayers. In Friday, 22,000 worshipers can pray at once here.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: How many?
Moulay Hafid Alami: [00:27:00] 22,000.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: 22,000.
Moulay Hafid Alami: It's used to be the biggest mosque, you know, but we built the mosque in Casablanca. The Casablanca mosque can have 80, 000 outside, and 20, 000 inside, which is 100, 000. This is 20, 000. In Ramadan, or the prayer time, you see people have a carpet on the floor here, outside, because it's full.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Okay, okay.
Moulay Hafid Alami: Okay, you understand? Yes. . There was a Pope called Sylvester II. The Pope who introduced the Arabic numbers in Europe was, as well, in this university. It's a very famous university here.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: As we get in to ending this stop, and a few other spots in Fes, I know we cannot cover everything in one day. You've been incredible.
Moulay Hafid Alami: Choukran,thank you.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: You're very welcome.
Moulay Hafid Alami: Thank you.
Azdean Elmoustaquim: Perfect. Thank you.
[00:28:00]
