"The Amazigh Chronicles" - The Ancient Amazigh Civilization and Their Contribution to History (Part 3)

AZDEAN: [00:00:00] Welcome back to another amazing episode of Destination Morocco podcast. Into today's episode, we welcome back Sam and Ms. Hiba for the last part of the Amazigh Chronicles, and in today's episode we're gonna talk about the ancient civilization and their contribution into history in terms of trade and commerce, [00:01:00] art and architecture.

Political and Military Contributions, Cultural Heritage, Resistance Against Foreigner Powers, Contribution to Islamic Scholarship, and Preservation of Traditional Knowledge. So, Ms. Hiba, can you give us just a little bit of a brief of the ancient Amazigh civilization? I know we've talked about it in the previous episodes, but I just want to freshen up the minds and, um, 

HIBA: Sure.

Um, as we've tackled, uh, during the first episode, especially when we were talking about the, uh, charming history of the Amazigh people, it is characterized of being complex and rich, especially throughout the diverse interactions and connections with the different empires. Among these, we have the Carthaginian Berbers that played a pivotal role, especially for the influential civilization of Carthage.[00:02:00]

We have also the Numidian, the inhabitants of Numidia, which is the great kingdom for Berbers then, spanning parts across Algeria, Tunisia, as well as Libya. It lived, its mark, especially during the Punic war with Rome. Also, we have the Garamantes, Berbers of Southern Libya. They were known for their advanced development in the vast Saharan desert.

And last but not least, uh, we can't deny the Almoravid dynasty, which she's uh, yeah, which was active in the 11 and 12. For centuries, their lasting impact influenced the region of Northern Africa, as well as the Iberian Peninsula. 

AZDEAN: Okay, so when you said Iberian Peninsula, what do you exactly mean? What countries, nowadays countries, if we're looking into the European map?

HIBA: Spain and Portuguese. 

AZDEAN: [00:03:00] Portugal. Okay, Portugal. Okay, perfect. Portugal, yeah. I really appreciate your insight, Hiba. Sam, do you have anything to add? to what Hiba just said, please. 

SAM: Yeah, sure. Thank you very much for this amazing episode again. What I want to add to what Hiba said is that we can, about the Berber civilization, as I mentioned maybe in the last episode about the Berber civilizations, most of the people think that it's a new civilization, like, for example, dated to 12th century or something like that.

But the truth is one of the oldest civilizations, as I said, with the pharaohs and the Phoenicians, as well as the Carthagians and the Romans as well, and the Aztec civilizations in America, Latin America. So here, to move to the Berbers, for example, civilizations, we can distinct between the Amazigh people living in the north, northern Africa.

in Numidia Kingdom, and Mauritania, Tangina, [00:04:00] which is, uh, right now, it's called Morocco and Mauritania right now. And the Sub Saharan Berbers, or Amazigh, which is called the Tuareg, the Tuareg people, which is living mostly in the Sahara, in the desert of Algeria, and the desert of Libya. The province of Azawad in Mali and the north of Niger and a small part of Chad, Sahara.

We're talking about the dynasties, the Berber dynasties that have a big influence as a civilization. Beside the Almoravid, we talk about Almohad. which build like most of the beautiful landmarks and history buildings, including, for example, in Marrakech, we can mention the Qutubiyah Mosque. We can mention in Rabat the Hassan Tower.

And, um, in, um, in Spain, Algeria. [00:05:00] Mosque, which is transformed nowadays into a church. 

AZDEAN: Yes, yeah, a lot of history. We're gonna talk a little bit more about the dynasties in a chronicle order as well, a little bit later on the episode, just to give the listeners an idea where everything really fits, so they can understand the history a little bit better.

So now I would like to Let's move to the topic of trade and commerce. What did the Amazigh have contributed to trade and commerce in Morocco? 

HIBA: On the level of trade and commerce, the Amazigh contribution, we can distinguish, uh, or taking the example of the ancient, uh, city of Idibides in Morocco, which is, uh, UNESCO World Heritage.

And during the Roman Empire, it was characterized as a center of, uh, trade. in which they exchange their commodities. So then, the Amazigh Berber, the Moroccan Berbers, were engaged [00:06:00] in trade and exchanged their commodities, like, uh, grain, uh, as well as, uh, olive oil and minerals. So that contributed to the economic and trade prosperity of the region, of Morocco particularly.

AZDEAN: You know, when we talk about trade, I know they, you know, Marrakech was a big hub, you know, between the northern part and the southern part of Africa and so forth, and Europe as well. Uh, but in here, in, in Volibulis, uh, this is something really new to me, but also I have some questions, uh, for Sam, if I may.

We have quite a bit of few World Heritage Sites in Morocco, and eventually we will have an episode that talks about those UNESCO World Heritage sites, obviously, but I want to, I have some questions that I need to ask. When we say volubilis, what does the word volubilis means? 

SAM: Um, volubilis comes from the Amazigh word, which is, uh, Ly [00:07:00] or Ali Li Ali means er, the three of er, because Bil is a fertile land.

So in this place, the er, Olender, 

AZDEAN: by the way, it's uh, I believe it's called also m. 

SAM: M, that's right. Yes, that's right. 

AZDEAN: Okay. 

SAM: Because, so when the Romans come to, or Volubilis at that time, they found the land between first and ness. The fertile land, Greenland, and they used it as their capital, where they created a commerce center or trading center to the caravans coming from the north and the others coming from the sub Sahara and the southern part of Morocco and Algeria as well.

AZDEAN: Yeah, that's incredible. I know at some point we did this back in the summertime, we did an episode just for Velibilis. And we will have it published at some point this year. You know, when you go to Volibilis, there's so much to see, so much stuff. It's a very rich site. But [00:08:00] also, what you notice is, it's the ruins.

Can you tell us a little bit about those ruins in brief? Before we move to our next topic. Please, Sam. 

SAM: Yeah, the ruins in Volibilis, Volibilis used to be like a city. A closed city where there is the arc, the arc of, of what's called victory or something like that. Yes. Yeah, I remember it. Yeah, I know exactly what you wanna talk about.

And there is a, but there is a pole for fish and there'll still be, uh, like a tater, a Roman tater. But the archeologists still looking and still searching during their, is to find where it's because a big part of the bilities is fall, be, uh, because of the earthquake of Lisbon. That's happened in 1755 and unfortunately a big part of it is, is fall down, but it's still beautiful to visit and still amazing for people searching for archaeological and history.

AZDEAN: So just to add, um, was Voliburis the only Roman [00:09:00] city in Morocco or were there others that have been destroyed by the earthquake that hit Portugal back in the 1700 century? 

SAM: Yes, there is still the Lixus, the Lixus between Al Quneitra and Larache in Morocco. Yes. And there is the Necropolis, Shalaa, Kasbah Shalaa in Rabat.

It dwelled during the Roman times in Morocco. 

AZDEAN: Okay. So I heard there's about five or six sites that they have been damaged as well. So just to sum up what Sam has said, volubilis is definitely a must stop, see, especially when you're doing the northern side. And also, you can see just like what Sam said, you know, there's, there's a place where you can see where they used to raise fish.

There's a place where you can see where they used to bathe. Olive oil means gold to them. So you can see the machines when they used to grind the olives to make the pure olive oil. And it's a very fertile land. One of the sites you [00:10:00] can see there's, it looks like it's a Caesar. But he's actually not a Caesar, that was just, this actually, uh, a Berber king.

But it was contributed to him. Uh, but I don't remember his name. 

SAM: Yubba, Yubba II. Yubba II. He's a warrior, and the king of Mauritania. and Numidia Kingdoms. 

AZDEAN: Thank you. Thank you for that, Sam. So, Voipilices really must see. Don't miss it. If you're doing the Northern Morocco tour, don't miss it. It's got a lot to offer.

SAM: I just want to add something to what Hiba mentioned in the beginning of this part about trade and commerce. 

AZDEAN: Yes. 

SAM: Uh, the Berbers in the old time, known for the trade and commerce and they have like such cities and places in Morocco where the caravans meet to exchange the gods with gold, with salt. For example, the the caravans coming from the Sub Saharan, which is like Ivory Coast nowadays, and Senegal, [00:11:00] uh, Chad, and, um, Togo, for example, they meet in Zagora, and then Ait Ibn Haddou.

Yes, the first meeting point in, in Morocco is Zagora, and then Ait Ibn Haddou. Then Marrakech. and then Issaouira, because all the ships coming from the western part of Europe, they come and they meet in Issaouira, and others they meet in Tangier. From Eastern Europe, they meet in Tangier. So, there is so many meeting points where the traders used to meet caravans in the past.

AZDEAN: That's really, really incredible. Thank you for the information, Sam. This is really, really amazing. So, now we're going to switch gears. We're going to stay on the same topic, but we're just going to move to the art and architecture. Back to you, Hiba, please, and then we'll go back to Sam. Sam. 

HIBA: Well, on that level, we have plenty of examples, but taking the, uh, sample of, uh, Qasba Udayes in Rabat, which reflects the distinctive Berber architectural art, especially throughout [00:12:00] its intricate designs and geometric patterns, that signifies the artistic influence of Moroccan Berber culture.

SAM: Yeah, I just want to mention the Qasbas, which is something specific to Morocco. and the Berber villages, because when the tourists come to visit in Morocco, they will hear about the Berber villages, which is built in a very unique and different way than other villages worldwide. The way the Amazigh people build the Kasbahs is just amazing and unique.

When you look, for example, at Ayat Ibn Hiddaw. or the Kasbah of Telwet, um, maybe Kasbah Tawrirt, in words of that, and as well the Kasbah Amredil in Skoura, and also, as Hiba mentioned, the Kasbah Udaya, and they mentioned before the Kasbah Shallah. Yes. Kasbah Shallah, because the Romans used to build it, but who built it originally?

They are Berbers, Amazigh people. [00:13:00] Yes. Okay. So, and to tell you the truth about the architecture and art of Berber, I just want to add that, You will hear like Andalusian style or Andalusian architecture or Arabic architecture or Arabic calligraphy in Morocco. For example, I'm talking about Morocco. The truth is they are Amazigh and Berber architecture.

It's not Andalusian. It's not Arabic, just for the truth and for the history. 

AZDEAN: Yes. You are a troublemaker. This is a really, really good point. And I know for the tourists, it's really hard to tell, but just to give you an idea, especially when you go to Wazir Zateen, when you go to the south. You'll see the Amazigh style.

You'll see the way that everything is decorated. It's like a brand, if you would. But then when you go to Marrakech, when you go to Fes, a lot of it is built by, it's the Berber culture, still the Berber style, the Berber design, but [00:14:00] it's, uh, somebody else is taking the credit for it. It's, it's not the Amazigh.

people. So sometimes it can be confusing, but it is the truth. So now we're going to move to another topic, which is the political and military contribution of the Berbers in history. And I have something to say as well when it comes to this. And, um, I want to start with Sam, if you would please, then we'll go to Hiba.

SAM: Yes. Um, talking about the military and political Contributions of the Amazigh people. I want just to mention something that's the Berbers in the past. They just, well, they are what is called, um, military from the tribes. So each tribe, they give like the strongest men and even women. That could be a warrior, could be a soldier, for example, and then they create their own military.

It's like nowadays, for example, you use like a military base, and [00:15:00] in the past, like we can talk, for example, about the village. There is a village. specifically for the troops of the military. And then what I want to mention here is just the Amazigh people in the past, they have their own tribunals. There is the leader of each tribe.

They come together in a council and they choose. A warrior to be a leader, leader and as a judge, for example, judge nowadays. Okay. To give the decisions about what's going on, on the tribes or in the, in the kingdom in general. 

AZDEAN: Mm. Okay. That's really, really important. Um, and I remember this with my grandfather.

When I was a kid, he was well known in the villages and the same system really still exists in a way and literally, he looks after a few villages in that region we're talking about maybe 16 different villages and Each one has the head of the village and everything collectively goes through the head of each village, [00:16:00] but with the approval of the one that governs those villages.

So that system still exists in a way, but also I want to hear what Hiba has to say. Then I want to talk a little bit about some history that I think that is really relevant to this topic. 

HIBA: Going back again to the Almoravid dynasty, which is founded by Moroccan Berbers. They were from Berber descent, so, um, originated in the Atlas Mountains of Morocco.

The Almoravid, known by their, um, influence across North Africa and the Iberian Peninsula. So that reflect heavily on the, um, military and political history of the region of Morocco and North Africa as a whole. 

AZDEAN: Okay. Sam, anything else to add? 

SAM: I just want to mention the different dynasties that used to [00:17:00] be in Morocco and not in Morocco, exactly.

In power Morocco, it's like empires in North Africa in general, because most of the dynasties are dominated like Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, and anti Libya, most of them. We start from the Idrisid dynasty. The Idrisi dynasty? The first, yeah. Yeah, the first one. It's, uh, around the ninth century, then followed by the Almo dynasties, which is, um, started in, as they mentioned in the last episode in the Southern Morocco, and then they, they moved to Marrakesh to take it as a capital.

The iris, by the way, they took first as a capital, then the Almo took Marish as a capital. Then when the, when the Almo dynasty became weak, the Almo had. Dynasty started in Aghmat village near Marrakech, and they took Marrakech as a capital as well. Then they moved to Rabat, where the Kasbah of Udaya, and they wanted to take it as a capital, but unfortunately, uh, yeah, [00:18:00] the leader passed away.

And then from there, the Saadian dynasty came 

AZDEAN: back to Marrakech. 

SAM: Yes. Yeah. Back to Marrakech. Then they moved to Fez. to take it as a capital. Then when the Sa'din, the Sa'din dynasty becomes weak again, it starts a new dynasty, which is based on the tribes. So they collect the tribes again, like in the old time of the Amazigh empires, and they started in Meknes and Thess, and they called Almerinid, the Almerinid dynasty.

Then afterward, the Almerinid dynasty, they have family conflicts. And then, unfortunately, it's lasted like 40 years or 50 years. Then followed by the Alaouite dynasty, which is the current monarchy in Morocco. But they started in Sij el Massa, by the way, it's not in Rabat. They started in Sij el Massa, which is right now Rissani.

It's a small village near Merzouga, the Sahara Desert. And then they moved to Meknes. [00:19:00] Moulay Ismail moved to Meknes and he took it as his capital. Then in 1912, Moulay Youssef moved to Rabat, and they took it as political capital till nowadays. 

AZDEAN: Okay, this is very, very interesting. I personally really, really appreciate your insight.

A lot of information. Thank you so much Hiba and Sam as well. Absolutely. I have, I have a couple of questions, if you don't mind, um, you know, when we talk about the dynasties, I want to talk specifically, I know we can do other episodes about each dynasty, and it's definitely worth it, but there's one specifically I want to talk about, especially when I'm talking about political and military contribution, we visited Fes, we visited Meknes in our last tour, and a lot of people do as well, so when we went to Meknes, we visited the mausoleum of King Moulay Ismail.

King Moulay Ismail has been known for many, many, many things. We've seen where he's buried, his son, his wife, his favorite wife. But I want to talk specifically about a war that he has with the Ottomans. [00:20:00] So if you can, in brief, talk about the Ottomans throughout the history that they tried to colonize or come to Morocco and what was the outcome of it and how long that took, please, Sam.

SAM: So the Ottoman state or the Turkish empire. The Ottoman State, maybe. There is a book about the Ottoman State, by the way, if someone wants to read about the Ottoman State. So, they start from Egypt. They colonized Egypt, Libya, until Algeria. They didn't arrive to Morocco because at that time there was a strong army.

Moulay Ismail created an army. I forgot the name exactly of the army. But at that time, one of the strongest period of the Alawite dynasty was during the reign of Moulay Ismail. Why? Because he gathered the Meknesa. and Dusun Haja tribes, which was at the time the strongest tribes in Morocco and they fought against the Ottoman [00:21:00] state and they were there for like 80 years trying to, to, to, to colonize Morocco, invade Morocco, but they, they couldn't.

Because at the time, as I said, there is like a strong connection between the Amazigh tribes with Mulay Ismail during the Alawite dynasty. Yeah. 

AZDEAN: Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. And especially that period, there's, there's a lot of wars at the same time that are happening, you know, that from. The eastern side of, of the borders.

Then we have the Atlantic Ocean, the pirates. Then we have Europe on the north side. So there was a lot of wars going on at the time, but luckily we prevailed. So, um, and I 

SAM: just want to add something. Sure. The, the Ottman state asked the, the king. After Moula Ismaili was Moula Mohamed Ibn Abdallah and he asked him to give him the land because they want to invade the rest of Europe because they come from the other side to what's called right now, um, the eastern part of Europe [00:22:00] and then they want to move on to the western part, which is right now Spain, France, Italy and so on.

But, uh, Mohamed Ibn Abdallah, he declined and he refused to give him the land. To invade Europe, especially the Iberian states, which is Spain and Portugal. 

AZDEAN: Location, location, location. This is incredible. Also, I just want to add, during the French colonization of Morocco and during the World War II and World War I, we fought with the French.

We fought their war. Uh, we have no business in that war, but we fought. It was most of us Moroccans, North Africans, Algerians, and they promised us when they win, we'll get our independence, but unfortunately we didn't, even though we won the war for them. So can you tell us, Sam? On that period specifically, if you have something to add, those Amazigh people, what are they nowadays?

SAM: Nowadays, when France, as you mentioned, asked the [00:23:00] Moroccan king at that time, which is Mohammed V, he asked him to give him his soldiers to participate, to help, honestly, to help France. On their own war at the time was the burber, the only am amateur soldiers, which is nowadays in Morocco, which is the reef, the reef part, and the, the of, of the male of Morocco.

And then the Algerian soldiers, which are the, and Kali by in the, in the north of Algeria, which is right now Aaba and uh, uh, Zu and, and around. But they are all. Soldiers and Amazigh people who fought for France, unfortunately. 

AZDEAN: That's very interesting. Thank you for sharing that. It's a lot of information and we're very grateful for it.

So now, um, we're going to move to the next topic that we have, which is the cultural heritage. And when we talk about the cultural heritage, it's [00:24:00] really, really rich, but I know we're going to be covering this topic on the next episode. So I just want to, Hiba, if you give us just a small history about the topic, please, and then we'll move to the next one.

HIBA: Absolutely. Uh, we can talk about the Amazigh language or Tamazight, which is a solid component of the country's cultural heritage, especially Morocco. So, um, on that case, efforts were made to preserve and promote in Morocco, especially, uh, 2003. in which, uh, it was the recognition of the Ufti Mezirq or the Mezirq language by the king, Mohammed VI, as well as efforts to be included in the educational system.

Uh, in fact, uh, it is included in some, uh, regions or some parts in Morocco, especially the southern parts, but still the, uh, process is going on. And, uh, that reflect the importance of Temezirq as a [00:25:00] linguistic diversity for Morocco. 

AZDEAN: Thank you for that. That's that's really good news. 

SAM: Yeah, I just what I want to add here is just the new constitution of 2012 in Morocco the Amazigh or Tamazigh to become the second official language of the kingdom because many people Especially to reach the Kingdom of Morocco.

They think that the official language is French It's not. The two official languages in Morocco is Arabic and Tamazight. And what I want to say about Tamazight is, is an amazing language because it's moved for thousands and thousands of years. Orally, it's oral language. 

AZDEAN: Yes. Hold on, I just want to explain a little bit.

So it's a spoken language. I don't know how to write it. I speak it, but I don't know how to write it. I know how to write it. 

SAM: You 

AZDEAN: know, um, this is very important for us and even as individuals, even me, my small family, I know a lot of people, even though when they [00:26:00] move from the mountains or the villages to the city, Casablanca, Agadir, Marrakech, it is still the parents, they only speak to the kids in Berber.

In my case, our parents spoke to us in regular Darija. So we learned it as when we go as kids, a vacation time, a summertime, that's how we learned the language. But nowadays, a lot of families, like, for example, me, I can speak it. Most of it I can understand as well. Khadija the same, but then Imran, we just teach him a few words.

So for me, On a personal level, it hurts that he doesn't speak it, but it's my responsibility for me to teach him, and that's going to take some time. But it's really, really important to us, uh, for our culture to keep the language alive. And so this is really important what the government is doing now in Morocco, and we hope they'll do more for the Amazigh.

Because like you said, a lot of civilizations, a lot of empires vanished, but the Yemezek people are [00:27:00] still around and their languages are still around. So, 

HIBA: yeah, 

AZDEAN: so now we're going to move to the next topic in this episode, which I want to talk about the contributions to Islamic scholarship by the Yemezek.

So I want to see what you have to say, Hiba, first, and then we'll go and check with Google. We'll check with 

HIBA: them. Okay, thank you, sir. I just want to say that, um, prominent Moroccan, uh, scholars, in fact famous, uh, are from, uh, Berber descent, including Ibn Battuta, who made a substantial contribution to Islamic scholarship throughout his extensive travels, as well as written, documented the diverse people and societies.

Languages he encountered during his travels, and that provide valuable and rich historical insights for the region of Morocco. And also just, I want to mention [00:28:00] Youssef Noutashafin. Uh, Youssef Noutashafin is a Moroccan, um, Muslim leader of Berbers. He became the leader of Al Moravid dynasty. He unified Morocco, as known, and one of his biggest achievements, we could say, the building of the city of Marrakech.

So we can't, I mean, deny his efforts, so we have to mention it. 

AZDEAN: And Koutoubia Mosque. 

HIBA: Yeah, yeah, 

AZDEAN: and what is the reason behind him building the Kutubia mosque? There's a special someone and special reason why he built it. 

HIBA: I personally don't know. 

AZDEAN: He built it for his wife. Yes to show his love. Yeah, 

SAM: because because the Al Moravid they gave it as a gift to his wife as you mentioned.

Yes. 

HIBA: Well, she's lucky. 

AZDEAN: And she was very smart. Very powerful. Yeah. Yeah. So just 

SAM: by the way, what's the name of his wife? That's right. Yes. 

AZDEAN: [00:29:00] This is really good. And thank you, Hiba. You have done an amazing job. And we really definitely appreciate your input, your opinion, your insight. So Sam, you know, even Batuta, we know who he is.

And I know for a lot of people when they do a tour with us, sometimes we include Tanjir on their itinerary. Can you tell us a little bit about people that are visiting Tanjir and why the connection between Ibn Battuta and Tanjir and why they should visit it? 

SAM: Ibn Battuta. Ibn Battuta is a Rifen. Uh, the Rifen is the tribes, uh, a Berber tribe that is living in the north of Morocco and the Ibn Battuta traveler was from Tangier.

In the past, it was only a reef, the reef mountains. There is no Tangier. There is no Titouan in the past. So he one of the famous travelers worldwide. Um, unfortunately, the books of history didn't give him a enough credit, enough credits and the value he [00:30:00] deserves. For the visitors of Tangier, you will fall in love with Tangier because many travelers fall in love with Tangier because it's, it's just amazing and incredible.

The colors, the overlooking of the both Mediterranean and Atlantic, especially if you remember our last visit to the Caps Hartel and the caves of Hercules as well. What I want to add here is just, I want to mention another person. a famous one, which is the Al Idrisi, Moulay Sherif Al Idrisi, which is a Berber.

It's one who designed the map of the world. In the beginning, the Batilmos, the Batilmos is a Roman or Greek writer who designed the Europe map, the nowadays Europe map. And then the Idrisi unified and designed what is called right now the globe, the map of the globe. Yes. Then without forgetting the Abbas Mnoufarnas.

Which is a, which is a burber. Yeah. The flight one. The, or [00:31:00] tried to flight for the first time without forgetting to mention, um, the leader. The leader who opened or just opened, not invade, please, never invaded the Iberian, the Iberian state, which is Spain and Portugal. He went there in peace and he opened that countries because.

He helped the people to know about the new religion, which is Islam. 

AZDEAN: Hmm. Yes. I mean, we can do episodes about Tariq Ibn Ziyad as well. So those are well known Amazigh leaders and travelers. But I want to mention Ibn Battuta is buried in Tangier. So it's worth a visit and you can visit his mausoleum in Tangier.

Anything else anybody wants to add? 

SAM: I just want to add that there is many many Amazigh leaders or kings that is not known and not mentioned in many books, especially [00:32:00] I can include Yuba I, Yuba II, Numidia, Yougerton, or they called him in Arabic Yougarta or Yougerton. Yougerton was one of the famous kings of the Mauritania kingdom, Mauritania Tangina kingdom.

And for the last one, the queen, Dihya. Unfortunately, they called it Kahina. I don't know where they come from. The word come from, but the real name is Dehia. Dehia in Berber, by the way, is smart, smart or clever person. Clever. 

AZDEAN: So, um, now we're going to move to the next topic, which is last but not least.

which is the preservation of traditional knowledge. 

SAM: Yes, as a preservation of the traditional knowledge of the Berbers, we can talk about, as I mentioned before, the Kasbahs. But I want to mention especially the Igouder. I think I mentioned it in the last episode, but it's very important to come back to this amazing system of the [00:33:00] bank.

The Igouder is the plural of Agadir. It is wall in Amazigh language. The Egudar system is like a bank used by the Amazigh in the past to store their gods, money, valuable jewelries and so on and stuff. And it still exists nowadays, especially in the western parts of Morocco. and, uh, a part of Libya. Okay.

AZDEAN: Yeah. So, the banking system for the Amazigh people is one of the first one that it's been used globally in the world. So that's how ancient it is. It goes back to way, way back, long time ago. Now, this banking system, we've seen pictures of it. Can you give us a specific location where people can go today and see it, for example?

SAM: Yes, you can go to the village of Tafraout. and the village of Egram in Tata, the province of Tata and the province of Tafrout, west [00:34:00] part of Morocco. Yeah. 

AZDEAN: Okay. So when you say the west part of, can you give a little bit more specific in terms of location, close to city or close to highway or landmark? 

SAM: It's between Agadir and Ouarzazate.

Tata is 290 kilometers from Agadir and, uh, te Road. Te Road is, uh, 190 kilometers from Agadir. 

AZDEAN: Okay. So basically in the southern part of Morocco. Keep in mind, those are long distances. They're long drives, so they're worth it, by the way. But, um, yes, so this is really, really good information. Thank you so much for sharing.

But also I wanna share something that happened. To us, or we witnessed it when we were last time in Zoga, or on the way to Zoga, we made a stop when we did the nomads. This was in Zoga, and we've seen the irrigation system, the underground irrigation system, and we've seen people drive all the way from ADIs.

ADI is the nearest cell close to mea, [00:35:00] and it's maybe 30 kilometers away, or 50 kilometers away, so it's a long drive. So we've seen people come in with their, you know, four by fours, they gather water. Drinking Water on Day Ticket. So, we had the guide, he was incredible, amazing, a lot of knowledge. And basically, he explained to us where the water was coming from.

I drank some, you drank some, it was very clean, very nice, nothing happened to us. And, he was also saying that it has not rained in that area for six years. So, just keep that in mind. So, it has not rained in Merzouga in six years. that specific area when we were, but yet they still have drinking water. And when I said, how come?

He said, it's because all the water coming from the mountains, that it's been purified going through those hills and hills of, of sand. And it's really, really pure. Very drinkable, very healthy, very good water, different than what you would find in a regular city [00:36:00] with Marrakech, Fes, Casablanca, the faucet water.

This is much, much better quality. Sam, can you add anything else to this? Because it was incredible for me. When I went to, in 2019, we did the same thing, but the tour that we did was, we were a little bit more focused on fossils. I did see the system as well in the other side of Morocco, the other part of Morocco, but those, the irrigation system was already dry.

We went underground, and we filmed some of it, and it was just amazing to see it. 

SAM: What I want to say is just, if you want to see this unique irrigation system, The first one you can see is in the village of Erfoud, between Erfoud and Tinejdad, it's a place called Tarat. Tarat, it's, as I said, between Tinejdad and Erfoud.

And the second one is the village of, uh, Hassi Lebied, in Merzouga. The name of the village is Hassi Lebied. As well, you can see them in the Agdes, in the Agdes, in the, in the other parts of, near [00:37:00] Zagora, in Draa Valley. And in Marrakech, we, uh, just don't forget that Marrakech, Marrakech, The Medina, the old Medina of Marrakech is built on the irrigation system, on the canals.

Yeah. 

AZDEAN: Yeah. Yeah. Marrakech. Um, I want to add something to Marrakech. When we were kids, we could see those, we call them khtarat, which yeah, there are holes in the ground and they go, uh, a few meters. I'm not sure how deep they go, but that's when we were kids and there were so many of them in Marrakech. And you have to be careful when you're walking, uh, especially at nighttime.

If you don't know where you're walking, if you're not familiar, you're probably going to fall into one of those. So when I'm, Talking, I'm talking about the early eighties. 

SAM: Yeah. And if you visit the Minara Gardens in Marrakech, the water they used for irrigation right now for the olive farms, they come, yeah.

Trees, they come from the high Atlas mountains from Orica Valley. Exactly. It's like 32 kilometers from Marrakech or underground water till the Minara Gardens. 

AZDEAN: That's, that's a long time. 32 kilometers. Yes. [00:38:00] Which is quite a bit of a distance for the water to travel all the way. 

SAM: Yeah. 22 miles I think. Yeah.

AZDEAN: Yeah. So that's amazing. Um, we have come to the end of our, this episode. So this concludes the chronicle part of the of the Amazigh history, culture, and everything else. And we're going to have a few more parts that we're going to discuss. We'll do episodes for them as well, and we'll do the best that we can to cover as much as we can in terms of history, culture, and everything else in between.

But I do appreciate you, Sam, very much. We do appreciate your knowledge. Us, the listeners, the viewers, Hiba's computer stopped recording, but you have been incredible, and we're very grateful for you. This is all you. This is your baby project. You put it together, and firstly, I can't really thank you enough.

And this subject is close to all of us, because we are from the same region, in terms of our culture and history. We speak almost the same language. [00:39:00] So this, this means a a lot to me personally and I know it means a lot to us as Amazigh people because we want to share our culture. We want to share our traditions with the guests, with the listeners, with the viewers and I can't really thank you enough.

I'm very grateful for you and thank you for being with us again today. Thank you so much. 

SAM: Absolutely. Absolutely. Most 

AZDEAN: welcome.